Brandt Clarke - yes or no

JC6388LAKings said:
Why? Why would some of you folks want to move away Clarke for a potentially worse package of players? I'd rather I move away Spence than Clarke. If you ask me, he's worse than Clarke. Moving Clarke away to a different team is the very last thing our team needs right now. And heaven forbid if Clarke manages to find even better success with his new team. We cannot afford losing another potentially strong O-minded D-man and then getting fleeced for little to nothing in return.
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Because sometimes that is what needs to happen.

Could you see a team (Team A) making a move similar to below, and being better for it.

Here is the trade proposal:

Team A gives up.....

1st round draft pick and a young Defensemen. A defensmen that can skate, puck handle and shoot better than DD. However, he is not great in his own zone and makes some mental mistakes. Lets say this player was drafted in the top 10 in his draft year.

Team B gives up a "known" defensively sound, goal scoring forward.

Would you ever consider making such a trade?

How many Stanley Cups, or international tournaments has Erik Karlsson won in his career? Sure, he has won many individual awards, but........
 
symbology said:
Because sometimes that is what needs to happen.

Could you see a team (Team A) making a move similar to below, and being better for it.

Here is the trade proposal:

Team A gives up.....

1st round draft pick and a young Defensemen. A defensmen that can skate, puck handle and shoot better than DD. However, he is not great in his own zone and makes some mental mistakes. Lets say this player was drafted in the top 10 in his draft year.

Team B gives up a "known" defensively sound, goal scoring forward.

Would you ever consider making such a trade?

How many Stanley Cups, or international tournaments has Erik Karlsson won in his career? Sure, he has won many individual awards, but........
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Now as much as I dislike E. Karlsson as a D-man defensively, he still provides much needed offense to a team that's offensively challenged despite the fact that Pittsburgh has been declining in the standings for the past few seasons. And no, I still wouldn't be willing to part with a potentially gifted playmaking O D-man (Clarke) for a bunch of peanuts because outside of Doughty, LA doesn't have any effective D-man in the roster to quarterback the O in the O-zone. And Spence isn't one of them since he's a poor man's Durzi. He should be the one to be traded away for a couple of low-round draft picks and/or a depth forward on the cheap who can boost this team's spotty O.
 
JC6388LAKings said:
Why? Why would some of you folks want to move away Clarke for a potentially worse package of players? I'd rather I move away Spence than Clarke. If you ask me, he's worse than Clarke. Moving Clarke away to a different team is the very last thing our team needs right now. And heaven forbid if Clarke manages to find even better success with his new team. We cannot afford losing another potentially strong O-minded D-man and then getting fleeced for little to nothing in return.
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I don’t want to trade Clarke. I wish Blake and Co. would get with the times and start playing an up tempo offensive style to take advantage of the foot speed and offensive skills already on the roster but that’s not going to happen.

The Kings are a low event, defense first hockey team. That’s just the reality of the situation. So trying to force a square peg into a round hole is never going to work. Clarke will never shine under Hiller or Blake, I’m pretty certain of that. I’d rather use his relatively high value as an asset than letting him rot playing 6 minutes a night or stuck in the press box.
 
JC6388LAKings said:
Now as much as I dislike E. Karlsson as a D-man defensively, he still provides much needed offense to a team that's offensively challenged despite the fact that Pittsburgh has been declining in the standings for the past few seasons. And no, I still wouldn't be willing to part with a potentially gifted playmaking O D-man (Clarke) for a bunch of peanuts because outside of Doughty, LA doesn't have any effective D-man in the roster to quarterback the O in the O-zone. And Spence isn't one of them since he's a poor man's Durzi. He should be the one to be traded away for a couple of low-round draft picks and/or a depth forward on the cheap who can boost this team's spotty O.
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Nobody wants to trade Clarke for a bag of pucks, or peanuts. However, there was a time that the Kings traded a somewhat offensively minded defensemen that was drafted 3rd overall plus a first round pic for Jeff Carter. The Kings went on to win 2 cups in 3 years. You are thinking of trading Clarke for crap, others have a more open mind.
 
FWIW
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symbology said:
Nobody wants to trade Clarke for a bag of pucks, or peanuts. However, there was a time that the Kings traded a somewhat offensively minded defensemen that was drafted 3rd overall plus a first round pic for Jeff Carter. The Kings went on to win 2 cups in 3 years. You are thinking of trading Clarke for crap, others have a more open mind.
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That was then. Sadly, Blake isn't going to have much good luck trying for a trade like this nowadays the way Lombardi did. There are hardly any players in the league right now who have a Jeff Carter-type of player made available that the Kings need to acquire in order to make it all the way to the Cup.
 
JC6388LAKings said:
Now as much as I dislike E. Karlsson as a D-man defensively, he still provides much needed offense to a team that's offensively challenged despite the fact that Pittsburgh has been declining in the standings for the past few seasons. And no, I still wouldn't be willing to part with a potentially gifted playmaking O D-man (Clarke) for a bunch of peanuts because outside of Doughty, LA doesn't have any effective D-man in the roster to quarterback the O in the O-zone. And Spence isn't one of them since he's a poor man's Durzi. He should be the one to be traded away for a couple of low-round draft picks and/or a depth forward on the cheap who can boost this team's spotty O.
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Spence really doesn't get enough respect on this board. He is not, by any means, a poor man's Durzi as he plays a much more complete game than Durzi. His offense has dipped for sure, but he is filling the role he has been asked to play. The benefit of Spence is that he can really fill any defensive position, but he's never going to be top tier in any role he finds himself in. His value to money is very high though, and he is a smart player who will just keep getting better.
 
symbology said:
Nobody wants to trade Clarke for a bag of pucks, or peanuts. However, there was a time that the Kings traded a somewhat offensively minded defensemen that was drafted 3rd overall plus a first round pic for Jeff Carter. The Kings went on to win 2 cups in 3 years. You are thinking of trading Clarke for crap, others have a more open mind.
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I was one of the first, if not the first, to advocate strongly on this board that JMFJ be put on the trading block. I took a lot of crap from almost everyone, but my instinct proved to be correct. I have that same feeling about Clarke. Trade him while he has max value. My belief is he will not become the player we all anticipated.
 
VCRW said:
I was one of the first, if not the first, to advocate strongly on this board that JMFJ be put on the trading block. I took a lot of crap from almost everyone, but my instinct proved to be correct. I have that same feeling about Clarke. Trade him while he has max value. My belief is he will not become the player we all anticipated.
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Well, don't hold your breath because this isn't 2012. Lombardi trading away JMFJ for Carter was an unexpectedly genius move at the time. This is 2025 and Blake isn't going to have the same luck pulling for a similar trade. And I'm not giving up on Clarke; besides, he's still young and is not even a finished product yet.

And BTW, JMFJ eventually won the Cup with Colorado 10 years after Lombardi dealt him away, even though he wasn't exactly tearing away the competition in the 2022 playoffs, so there's that.
 
I would not trade him. I would not scratch him. In fact, I would give him power play time. I would let him use the gifts he has to help the team win while at the same time let him work on his defects.

Something I don’t understand with this team. Why is s offensive ability seen as less than defensive ability in a defenseman? They expect forwards to help out defensively. So why not expect defensemen to contribute offensively? It should be more than getting the 1st pass out of the zone or getting a shot on net. You don’t have to be Erik Karlsson but you should have some abilities, whether it’s skating with the puck, passing, or scoring. And I’m not knocking Anderson, Gavrikov, & Edmundson. But when you have someone on the ice who doesn’t do those things it limits what they can do offensively. Which brings it back to Clarke and using the gifts he has.
 
JC6388LAKings said:
Well, don't hold your breath because this isn't 2012. Lombardi trading away JMFJ for Carter was an unexpectedly genius move at the time. This is 2025 and Blake isn't going to have the same luck pulling for a similar trade. And I'm not giving up on Clarke; besides, he's still young and is not even a finished product yet.

And BTW, JMFJ eventually won the Cup with Colorado 10 years after Lombardi dealt him away, even though he wasn't exactly tearing away the competition in the 2022 playoffs, so there's that.
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You are correct, this is not 2012, this is 2025.

Johnson was a full time top 4 defensemen on the Kings at the time of that trade. They only reason DL was able to make that trade was because Voynov was ready to play in the NHL and he just needed an opening on the roster. Clarke is basically riding the pine now that Drew is back. So, it is not like trading him is going to open up a hole in the lineup. When he does play now he is not playing meaningful / substantial minutes. That is not how you develop a young defensemen. They need playing time. He will not continue to develop if this keeps up.

I am leaning towards VCRW's take. I hate to say it, but that is where I am at right now with Clarke.. The Kid really should have stayed in the AHL all last year so he can play and develop.

The Kings need to either play the kid in the NHL and accept his mistakes, send him to Ontario, or trade him. This playing 5- 7 easy minutes a night is going to ruin him. Not enough playing time to gain confidence. Not enough to learn from. Being the 3rd wheel in defensive pairing is a horrible idea.
 
VCRW said:
I was one of the first, if not the first, to advocate strongly on this board that JMFJ be put on the trading block. I took a lot of crap from almost everyone, but my instinct proved to be correct. I have that same feeling about Clarke. Trade him while he has max value. My belief is he will not become the player we all anticipated.
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I think you are right if the expectation is for Clarke to be our future star defenseman. If, however, the expectation is to be a niche player who is a benefit of the PP and can provide offensive spark then I say hold on to him.

I can't really get a read of Clarke's hockey IQ, though. If the thought is that it is mid-low then I agree with you in dealing with him as without a strong hockey IQ he won't be able to adjust to compensate for his weaknesses.
 
Dr. Tran said:
I would not trade him. I would not scratch him. In fact, I would give him power play time. I would let him use the gifts he has to help the team win while at the same time let him work on his defects.

Something I don’t understand with this team. Why is s offensive ability seen as less than defensive ability in a defenseman? They expect forwards to help out defensively. So why not expect defensemen to contribute offensively? It should be more than getting the 1st pass out of the zone or getting a shot on net. You don’t have to be Erik Karlsson but you should have some abilities, whether it’s skating with the puck, passing, or scoring. And I’m not knocking Anderson, Gavrikov, & Edmundson. But when you have someone on the ice who doesn’t do those things it limits what they can do offensively. Which brings it back to Clarke and using the gifts he has.
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Wow what a great post.
symbology said:
You are correct, this is not 2012, this is 2025.

Johnson was a full time top 4 defensemen on the Kings at the time of that trade. They only reason DL was able to make that trade was because Voynov was ready to play in the NHL and he just needed an opening on the roster. Clarke is basically riding the pine now that Drew is back. So, it is not like trading him is going to open up a hole in the lineup. When he does play now he is not playing meaningful / substantial minutes. That is not how you develop a young defensemen. They need playing time. He will not continue to develop if this keeps up.

I am leaning towards VCRW's take. I hate to say it, but that is where I am at right now with Clarke.. The Kid really should have stayed in the AHL all last year so he can play and develop.

The Kings need to either play the kid in the NHL and accept his mistakes, send him to Ontario, or trade him. This playing 5- 7 easy minutes a night is going to ruin him. Not enough playing time to gain confidence. Not enough to learn from. Being the 3rd wheel in defensive pairing is a horrible idea.
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This speaks to crux of this issue. It’s not Clarke, it’s what plan does this team realistically have for him? They drafted him 8th overall. This is not a later round player you draft for a certain skillset so you can correct other issues. This is a player you draft at that number to bring that game to the NHL.

I actually don’t take issue with the team being so defensively focused provided they give runway for players who have the gifts to use their gifts. Even the Lemaire-coached Wild let Gaborik light it up. It looks like Hiller gives Fiala some room. Clarke needs the same. And if you can’t give him that space, what are we doing?
 
LAKingSteve said:
Doughty's first season:
81GP, 6 goals, 21 assists, -17, 56 penalty minutes, 23:50 average time on ice

Clarke this year:
54GP, 4 goals, 21 assists, +7, 36 penalty minutes, 16:24 average time on ice

Perhaps someone with better memory can provide a POV on the eye test comparison.
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I hated DD his first few years. I was not impressed at all. With Clarke's #s being slightly better (albeit on a MUCH better overall team), I am quite happy with Clarke!
 
hokiecat said:
11 million dollars to be the same as we were.
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I’m not so sure, and that’s why I ask. Seems the defense was actually playing better BEFORE he returned. Yes, the scoring dried up which exacerbates the issues, but we’ve been giving up more goals lately as well. Maybe it’s the fault of the goalies having some rough games, maybe the forwards are discombobulated, maybe it’s…
 
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