Birdman
TEAM LGK
He should be on Team Canada instead of Doughty
Hiller Hotseat Thread
- Thread starter Birdman
- Start date
emsomaso
The Swedish King
I don’t know what more evidence anyone would need to see that Hiller needs to be fired other than:
- the playoffs embarrassment from last year
- the total lack of accountability
- the mishandling of the 4th line
-the fact that the team plays so extremely boring that even hard core fans are getting disinterested
- the fact that they show no heart at all
- the putting players with zero chemistry together over and over again
- the line combinations that links like someone just threw them together without any thought whatsoever
- the pathetic press conferences after games that everyone can see were a total sh*tshow
- the absolute lack of active coaching during games
- the choice of players to start and play during the 3-3 overtime
- the choice of players used during the shootouts
- the fact that they can’t score
- the fact that the powerplay stinks
I don’t know about you, but IMO the above is enough to see that
Hiller isn’t the coach this team needs…
- the playoffs embarrassment from last year
- the total lack of accountability
- the mishandling of the 4th line
-the fact that the team plays so extremely boring that even hard core fans are getting disinterested
- the fact that they show no heart at all
- the putting players with zero chemistry together over and over again
- the line combinations that links like someone just threw them together without any thought whatsoever
- the pathetic press conferences after games that everyone can see were a total sh*tshow
- the absolute lack of active coaching during games
- the choice of players to start and play during the 3-3 overtime
- the choice of players used during the shootouts
- the fact that they can’t score
- the fact that the powerplay stinks
I don’t know about you, but IMO the above is enough to see that
Hiller isn’t the coach this team needs…
DoubleMinor
Top Forward
I know how frustrating this team is. Who can ignore it?I don’t know what more evidence anyone would need to see that Hiller needs to be fired other than:
- the playoffs embarrassment from last year
- the total lack of accountability
- the mishandling of the 4th line
-the fact that the team plays so extremely boring that even hard core fans are getting disinterested
- the fact that they show no heart at all
- the putting players with zero chemistry together over and over again
- the line combinations that links like someone just threw them together without any thought whatsoever
- the pathetic press conferences after games that everyone can see were a total sh*tshow
- the absolute lack of active coaching during games
- the choice of players to start and play during the 3-3 overtime
- the choice of players used during the shootouts
- the fact that they can’t score
- the fact that the powerplay stinks
I don’t know about you, but IMO the above is enough to see that
In last year’s playoff series Hiller chose to rely on three lines because he could not find three guys who could play together and not hurt the team, especially after the Jeannot injury. And a young and inexperienced fourth line on the road in EDM was scary. It wasn’t coaching. It was a roster issue. That’s an organizational problem, not a coaching issue.
His decision to challenge was very questionable. But, Hiller chose to because the team was likely running on empty and the NHL is so maddeningly inconsistent on the challenge decisions. He opted to try to get a favorable ruling. He was wrong.
Still, as much criticism as Hilier has gotten, he was a minute from going up 3-0 and 3-1 in that series. He put his team in a position to win that series. Thats all a coach can do.
Re the current team and the line combinations, none have really worked. So, you keep doing what’s not working or adjust? At least he’s trying to find something.
I think it’s valid to question the OT personnel. And fans have criticized the SO choices of every Kings coach since OT became a thing.
Also valid re the PP which is embarrassing and frustrating. But the Kings need a D who can QB it but don’t have it. That’s a front office created issue, just as a lack of fourth line last year was.
I know this team is disappointing. The Kings are nearly unwatchable. I just see several
areas that are problematic, not a singular one.
emsomaso
The Swedish King
I agree with the last part, there are several problems. But that is not an excuse to keep a lousy coach…
No one could say that Columbus has a perfectly put together team, still they keep on winning after giving the players a new, better coach!
Bollocks
Super Star
While I understand your point of view, standing pat at this point is sending out the wrong message - both to the players and to the fans.
Sure, partial blame definitely goes to how the roster is built, but the roster is, on paper, not worse than last year. Worse on D, but not by much (- Gavrikov and Spence; but considerably improved Clarke, healthy DD, 3rd pairing more defensively stable than last year). Better goaltending; considerably better offensive depth (on paper). The issue is the players have shut out Hiller, who is the most uncharismatic, non-assertive and non-motivating coach possible, so it's hard to imagine that not happening after all that went on last season, and then this season with Phil, too.
The Phil situation in particular shows potential issues with things we don't see - things within the locker room...communication, authority and/or decision making.
I think they need a breath of fresh air, a different approach. Similar to how the team in 2012 needed it.
And Ken all but admitted to that by saying "Hiller will be coach for this season", implying there's most likely going to be a HC change, implying that Hiller IS part of the problem. He's well aware he's not the right fit (anymore), yet he's unwilling to replace him mid season? He's willing to trade for Panarin and extend him for 22 million, but he's not willing to replace the head coach? Why should he be so conservative? It's not like the team is trending upwards in form and sitting comfortably on the standings. It's not like there's high end prospects knocking on all kinds of doors to make the team next season, offsetting the loss of Kopitar and Perry.
What does that say to the players? "Sorry, you suck bad enough that despite adding Panarin I'm not willing to give you a better chance of success this season and replace a head coach even I think isn't good for this team anymore"?
Why not promote from within again - Lord from Ontario, and maybe this time DON'T hand out to him a 3-year contract if he proves successful enough to make him a permanent choice?
What can Ken lose by replacing Hiller with NHL-unproven Lord, for example, while not repeating the same mistake Rob did by handing out a ridiculous contract extension? What does he risk? Who will he upset?
And which coveted and sought-after coaches with proven track record will be available in the offseason that are not available now, if he's simply staunchly against hiring an NHL-unproven coach? Whose contract will run out and not get extended despite meeting expectations of his employers? Is he banking on a very good coach gettng bored and wanting a challenge? Someone wanting LA glamour and beach life?
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Despite the fact that most fans and analysts think Hiller is not a good fit for this team, I'm of the belief that removing him before the season's end will not help them get into/or make a deep run into the playoffs. I think when we saw this work (Enter the Darryl) the switch over had less to do with system and more to do with motivation. In this case, I believe that Hiller's ingrained/inherited system from Todd needs to be scrubbed so thoroughly, that it cannot be implemented during the season.
ICE24
Super Star
My stance is they don't have the players to win. Bring in another coach, same results. If these players had heart were more skilled, I would blame the coach. Not one of these players makes others better. They say Panarin will make others better, I say the Rangers were in last place, who did he make better.
DoubleMinor
Top Forward
I think the issue I have is when posters have made assumptions that somehow become fact. None of us are close enough to the situation to know what is actually true.
For example, a statement that says “…the players have shut out Hiller…”.
How would any of us know whether that is in fact the case?
Or, when the statement is “Ken all but admitted to that saying Hiller will be coach for this season implying there’s likely going to be a HC change”.
I don’t think any of us can draw that conclusion.
There was talk among fans that IF Holland was going make a change that this three week break would be the time to do it. Makes sense. But Holland nipped that by offering a statement that a change was not imminent.
We all know, regardless of contract, that every coach is evaluated after every season. I have every reason to think that evaluation will occur. (The Kings fail to make the playoffs I’m sure Hiller will be in jeopardy.).
This was semantics from Holland. Not a determination that Hiller is gone at the end of the year.
Again, for me, I think accountability is on the players. I don’t absolve the coach at all. But honestly, is anyone of the belief that Kopitar and Doughty are playing near their customary level?
Kempe and Fiala, Eddie, are fine, nothing overly special. Clarke has taken great strides. Armia has been a solid player.
The defense might not look that bad, but Dumoulin has been bad the last couple weeks. Moverare was miserable the last two games. Ceci is nothing special.
I watch this team and I see a bunch of players underachieving. That is where I think the problem is.
Clif
Super Star
Blake signed Hiller to a three year contract in May 2024. Not sure where the narrative that Holland extended him comes from.
Excellent posts by @emsomaso.
When this many players are underachieving, what is the common denominator? Foegele plays way too simple of a game for it to just disappear the next year.
Excellent posts by @emsomaso.
When this many players are underachieving, what is the common denominator? Foegele plays way too simple of a game for it to just disappear the next year.
DoubleMinor
Top Forward
You are indeed correct about Hiller and his contract. I got that wrong.
I think Foegele has been banged up and hasn’t found his game.
Clif
Super Star
No sweat. You’re not the only person who’s said this - and it’s not limited to LGK.
Could definitely be, on Foegele. His decline this year has been a head scratcher for me. But re: the rest of the team I see Hiller’s admittedly highly demanding system as not working. However the players are playing hard and I don’t think he’s lost them. They echo his loser statements that they are playing well and just need more puck luck.
DoubleMinor
Top Forward
Didn’t Foegele have an injury at the end of camp that had him out of the lineup? Then another that had him miss time? I think he has just not been healthy enough and gotten into a rhythm this season. I’m hopeful he can find his game. He was good last season.
King of Pentacle5
Top Forward
With Doughty on Canada’s D, that may be possible with the way he’s been playing lately.
waynet
Super Star
Doughty isn't the only problem with the Kings, but Hiller's tendency to play him in OT/PK situations is exasperating. On a team populated with slow defensemen, DD still stands out. He can still pass effectively, a rare commodity with Kings defensemen. His selection by Canada cannot be reasonably explained by current performance, more likely a reward for past accomplishments.
And, yea, Hiller's moshpit-along-the-boards hockey is both boring and ineffective.
And, yea, Hiller's moshpit-along-the-boards hockey is both boring and ineffective.
DoubleMinor
Top Forward
I recently read that Doughty is a legend in Canada and that’s why he was chosen. Probably makes more sense than anything else.
symbology
TEAM LGK
Good post.
Something that I have been thinking about these last few days. Thinking of Foegele sitting out. Thinking of the line you mentioned last year and how good they were. Thinking of how awful they were this year. We all know that Danault was not happy and wanted out. Now, the reason I have been thinking of this is.......... Back in early November (I think it was) there was a game where Foegele scored a goal. I do not remember the exact circumstance, but it was called off. Foegele was adamant that it was a good goal. Hiller did not challenge the play. Foegele was pissed. When the camera showed him on the bench you can see he was fuming and I am very certain that he said "f*&#king coward".
I would not be surprised if there is not at least some issues in the room. I would never had imagined that Danault would want out. If it is not the coach, then what is the issue?
I think the only two players on this team that are performing at the same pace last year, or better are the D pair of Edmundson and Clarke. Laf is not doing to bad, but Mikey had 6G/18A for 24 points last year. He is just 2G/7A for 9 points this year. I will say it seems like he has picked up his play over the last 10-15 games though.
If the entire team is underperforming with the exception of a D pair which could be explained by an improving young offensively gifted player name Clarke. How can you not at least consider the coach? Not saying it is his fault, but he is at the helm of the King's on ice ship.
T
symbology
TEAM LGK
He was selected due to the intagibles and his history. They felt he could help the team in many ways, just not on the ice.
Bollocks
Super Star
Assumptions is mostly what we, fans on a message board, operate with when it comes to discussing things that have not happened (yet) and we have no direct information of.
It's clear as day that no one will wash the dirty laundry in public unless it becomes absolutely intolerable.
So we can't really do anything else than assume.
And we can assume based on what we see. Team performance, body language, interviews, press conferences and certain events like the one @symbology mentioned with Foegele. And the Phil situation that actually ended up almost as dirty laundry washing in public...
'I felt powerless and useless': Phillip Danault opens up on his struggles in L.A. after Canadiens return
At 32 years old, Quebec-born center Phillip Danault has been back with the Montreal Canadiens since Friday, following a trade that stirred up quite a reaction.
When one of the team leaders and key players in last season's playoffs situation sours so much...there has to be something very wrong.
Regarding Ken: he's constantly having to defend the decision not to fire Hiller and the Kings just lost 2 VERY important division games, so surely there is doubt about him. If the Kings fail to make the playoffs he's gone 100%. So far it doesn't look great. Ken not firing Hiller after these two KEY losses is basically signaling us that he thinks this is "good enough".
So, yeah...when there's many signals that point towards something, I definitely am going to assume things.
Bottom line is: Kings are struggling. Most of the players are underperforming compared to previous season(s). One Panarin won't magically fix all these struggles. So ideally Ken tackles the Kings' problems on all fronts at once: getting an offensively gifted player is one step. Another one should be replacing Hiller. And the last one should be (with agreement from the new coach) getting rid of either Ceci or Dumoulin and acquiring a more mobile D-man with some PP pedigree and better passing ability.
This team direly needs a shock therapy and acquiring Panarin from a losing team he failed to bring the promised success to isn't enough.
Standing pat and keeping Hiller for 4 more months might be the key decision that keeps the Kings OUT of the playoffs. And even if the Kings DO make playoffs there's that much less confidence they can do any damage than last season. They're likely going to face Vegas as things stand now and that's an even worse matchup than Edmonton.
Ken is half-@ssing it. He's not rebuilding, he's not retooling and he's not doing enough to make this team win. Panarin basically fell into his lap and it seems that's all he's going to do. He should take Panarin and one-up or two-up with coaching change and another trade, but he's playing it safe and conservative. How that is an indication of an experienced GM with winning pedigree and apparent authority is beyond me...