Hiller Hotseat Thread

[Pevsfreedom]

I'm just not watching. There's no point. Roster sucks minus a few, coaches suck, management sucks, no rebuild in sight, no plan. I think we're still the oldest team in the league banking off of nostalgia or something? I'd get the same satisfaction watching a team I don't know play. I'm not rooting for anyone. I want them to lose so they can start making changes, so watching the games is conflicting. I'd probably watch if Hiller goes but he's not =the= problem (it's the entire culture of management atm).

 

[F**e_Off]

From the very little I have seen and the even less that I know about the sport, as I understand it Hiller insists they all play a 200 ft game. To me, the outcome appears to now be that nobody seems to have any kind of a set position on the ice and nobody knows who should be covering who or where when the opposition gains the zone. That's why I see two or sometimes three players often move over to where the opposition puck handler is on the boards leaving large areas of the ice open to attackers and the goalie exposed to grade A shots. Maybe that's always been the way the game is played, but it seems to my admittedly very untrained eye that the most common reaction, when the opposition score, is players looking around at each other as if to say "who was meant to be covering that guy?"

I don't understand why, other than it's Hiller's system, there is the need for every player to play a 200 foot game. From an offensive player's point of view, isn't covering back all the time a consistent (and, over the course of a season, exhausting) drain of offensive players' energy? Surely, when players have clearly defined offensive or defensive skills, experience and aptitudes (not particularly in that order of priority) should they they not be primarily (though obviously not exclusively) employed in focusing on utilising those strengths? Let the defencemen primarily take care of defending their zones or players and allow the offense to focus on attacking and scoring the goals. I realize there is the question of dealing with the transition out of the defensive zone and that this outlook is probably far too simplistic an approach, but players not being able to focus on their strengths seems kind of what Phil was having a problem with hinted at and bemoaned and why perhaps Byfield often seems (to me) to be confused and most notably (again to me) why Foegele is struggling with his game and his head/morale seems definitely down.

We also know that DD (regardless of whether he likes to admit it to himself or not) and Kopi are way too old now to play a 200 ft game which surely must disrupt the on-ice organization in certain shifts. Perhaps also why Kopi got injured or, given the Kings management's proclivity for keeping its cards close to its chest, just plain needed to have a rest.

Maybe this system is all Hiller's got and while the team took it on board and skated with it last year, now they are finding it impossible to sustain, the whole system is now glaringly falling apart and everyone is just soldiering on until something changes. The "only" difference between 2025 and 2026 is losing Gavrikov and gaining Perry, Ceci and Dumoulin isn't it? Is that sufficient reason for this team's regular season performance to drop so dramatically? That doesn't seem right to me and it's why it seems to me that Hiller and his system is the main problem. It's also why I favor changing the head coach position first and seeing how the players respond, before considering making significant roster changes.

I apologize for any muddled thinking here and for such a long comment, but I always welcome the opportunity to learn and so I'm just putting it all out there for you hockey geniuses (absolutely no sarcasm intended) to shoot down in flames or whatever...

 

[King of Pentacle5]

I'm just not watching. There's no point. Roster sucks minus a few, coaches suck, management sucks, no rebuild in sight, no plan. I think we're still the oldest team in the league banking off of nostalgia or something? I'd get the same satisfaction watching a team I don't know play. I'm not rooting for anyone. I want them to lose so they can start making changes, so watching the games is conflicting. I'd probably watch if Hiller goes but he's not =the= problem (it's the entire culture of management atm).

I like watching Utah. That’s an ownership team that gives a crap.

 

[What party?]

I don’t know what more evidence anyone would need to see that Hiller needs to be fired other than:

- the playoffs embarrassment from last year
- the total lack of accountability
- the mishandling of the 4th line
-the fact that the team plays so extremely boring that even hard core fans are getting disinterested
- the fact that they show no heart at all
- the putting players with zero chemistry together over and over again
- the line combinations that links like someone just threw them together without any thought whatsoever
- the pathetic press conferences after games that everyone can see were a total sh*tshow
- the absolute lack of active coaching during games
- the choice of players to start and play during the 3-3 overtime
- the choice of players used during the shootouts
- the fact that they can’t score
- the fact that the powerplay stinks

I don’t know about you, but IMO the above is enough to see that Hiller isn’t the coach this team needs…

Reads like weaponized incompetence. But to what end?

 

[Clif]

Didn’t Foegele have an injury at the end of camp that had him out of the lineup? Then another that had him miss time? I think he has just not been healthy enough and gotten into a rhythm this season. I’m hopeful he can find his game. He was good last season.

I forgot that part because he didn’t miss that much time but perfectly reasonable it was serious enough to linger.

I like the player too. A lot of value for that contract. I’d much prefer to hold onto him.

 

[Clif]

Assumptions is mostly what we, fans on a message board, operate with when it comes to discussing things that have not happened (yet) and we have no direct information of.

It's clear as day that no one will wash the dirty laundry in public unless it becomes absolutely intolerable.

So we can't really do anything else than assume.

And we can assume based on what we see. Team performance, body language, interviews, press conferences and certain events like the one @symbology mentioned with Foegele. And the Phil situation that actually ended up almost as dirty laundry washing in public...

'I felt powerless and useless': Phillip Danault opens up on his struggles in L.A. after Canadiens return

At 32 years old, Quebec-born center Phillip Danault has been back with the Montreal Canadiens since Friday, following a trade that stirred up quite a reaction.

www.allmontrealhockey.com

When one of the team leaders and key players in last season's playoffs situation sours so much...there has to be something very wrong.

Regarding Ken: he's constantly having to defend the decision not to fire Hiller and the Kings just lost 2 VERY important division games, so surely there is doubt about him. If the Kings fail to make the playoffs he's gone 100%. So far it doesn't look great. Ken not firing Hiller after these two KEY losses is basically signaling us that he thinks this is "good enough".

So, yeah...when there's many signals that point towards something, I definitely am going to assume things.



Bottom line is: Kings are struggling. Most of the players are underperforming compared to previous season(s). One Panarin won't magically fix all these struggles. So ideally Ken tackles the Kings' problems on all fronts at once: getting an offensively gifted player is one step. Another one should be replacing Hiller. And the last one should be (with agreement from the new coach) getting rid of either Ceci or Dumoulin and acquiring a more mobile D-man with some PP pedigree and better passing ability.

This team direly needs a shock therapy and acquiring Panarin from a losing team he failed to bring the promised success to isn't enough.

Standing pat and keeping Hiller for 4 more months might be the key decision that keeps the Kings OUT of the playoffs. And even if the Kings DO make playoffs there's that much less confidence they can do any damage than last season. They're likely going to face Vegas as things stand now and that's an even worse matchup than Edmonton.


Ken is half-@ssing it. He's not rebuilding, he's not retooling and he's not doing enough to make this team win. Panarin basically fell into his lap and it seems that's all he's going to do. He should take Panarin and one-up or two-up with coaching change and another trade, but he's playing it safe and conservative. How that is an indication of an experienced GM with winning pedigree and apparent authority is beyond me...

I like most of what you said here quite a bit but in the interest of speculating based on what we have I’ll offer a different potential for Hollland.

Some of the same people (Freidman and Pagnotta) reporting Kings were in on Panarin were also reporting there were real questions in the Kings’ FO on if it was worth pushing in too many chips to land a player like that this season.

Given all we know now Holland had to take advantage of a superstar wanting to come here, so he did. I said prior that it looked to me like Holland was writing this season off. The fact that he got Panarin for as little as he did doesn’t contradict that. The fact he stood firm on only a 2 year extension vs. 3 or 4 years shows smarts and balls, full stop.

In the presser Holland showed regret they had to give up Greentree but emphasized how it much it meant that they retained the first this year. This shows he is not simply blowing the best assets but still has an eye on the future. Much of hockey media is questioning and Rangers media is crucifying Drury since didn’t at least get a first for an extended Panarin.

When asked about the system changing for Panarin Holland said Panarin would have to change for the Kings. But then brought up on his own there’s not enough time to change systems now. He did not defend the current system much less say anything positive about it. That matters.

Big picture, I don’t see Holland prioritizing this season as all-in afterall, and he will make further moves from after Olympics to throughout the summer.

Per @emsomaso I’d like to see Holland can Hiller anyway and CLB is a good example as to why. May as well see what a new coach could do, especially if this season is not prioritized over the future. But on the flip side if the future two seasons matter more than this one, then he’s better off giving himself more choices this summer than late in the season now.

 

[DoubleMinor]

Good post.

Something that I have been thinking about these last few days. Thinking of Foegele sitting out. Thinking of the line you mentioned last year and how good they were. Thinking of how awful they were this year. We all know that Danault was not happy and wanted out. Now, the reason I have been thinking of this is.......... Back in early November (I think it was) there was a game where Foegele scored a goal. I do not remember the exact circumstance, but it was called off. Foegele was adamant that it was a good goal. Hiller did not challenge the play. Foegele was pissed. When the camera showed him on the bench you can see he was fuming and I am very certain that he said "f*&#king coward".

I would not be surprised if there is not at least some issues in the room. I would never had imagined that Danault would want out. If it is not the coach, then what is the issue?

I think the only two players on this team that are performing at the same pace last year, or better are the D pair of Edmundson and Clarke. Laf is not doing to bad, but Mikey had 6G/18A for 24 points last year. He is just 2G/7A for 9 points this year. I will say it seems like he has picked up his play over the last 10-15 games though.

If the entire team is underperforming with the exception of a D pair which could be explained by an improving young offensively gifted player name Clarke. How can you not at least consider the coach? Not saying it is his fault, but he is at the helm of the King's on ice ship.

T

Interesting to revisit the situation on that disallowed Foegele goal. Initially I viewed it as an emotional heat of battle thing. I had not thought that there were lingering issues over it. But, I do recall feeling troubled by the “… coward” thing.

I can understand Foegele being competitive and angry. And I understand the hesitancy of challenging disallowed goals with how erratic Toronto is on challenges. And the cost of losing a challenge and being short handed is absolutely a factor.

I don’t understand the “coward” part though. That’s a pretty stark statement. I admit to being pretty old school about sports and cannot imagine making that comment. I cannot imagine there are not lingering emotions over that.

As for the Danault, Moore & Foegele line, maybe the easiest answer to the issue is that Danault was angry about a reduced role, Foegele angry about the lack of challenge, and both decided to have a pity party.

Regardless, it’s too bad. Foegele was good last year. He has a very favorable contract. But if things are irreparable it’s the only path.

 

[XPantericA]

Interesting to revisit the situation on that disallowed Foegele goal. Initially I viewed it as an emotional heat of battle thing. I had not thought that there were lingering issues over it. But, I do recall feeling troubled by the “… coward” thing.

I can understand Foegele being competitive and angry. And I understand the hesitancy of challenging disallowed goals with how erratic Toronto is on challenges. And the cost of losing a challenge and being short handed is absolutely a factor.

I don’t understand the “coward” part though. That’s a pretty stark statement. I admit to being pretty old school about sports and cannot imagine making that comment. I cannot imagine there are not lingering emotions over that.

As for the Danault, Moore & Foegele line, maybe the easiest answer to the issue is that Danault was angry about a reduced role, Foegele angry about the lack of challenge, and both decided to have a pity party.

Regardless, it’s too bad. Foegele was good last year. He has a very favorable contract. But if things are irreparable it’s the only path.

Foegele specifically lauded Hiller for showing confidence in him and elevating his role last year. I’ll see if I can find the interview. Paraphrasing, but it was something to the effect of “he believes in me…” when explaining his offensive outburst.

I don’t know how that could have soured so quickly.

 

[DoubleMinor]

Foegele specifically lauded Hiller for showing confidence in him and elevating his role last year. I’ll see if I can find the interview. Paraphrasing, but it was something to the effect of “he believes in me…” when explaining his offensive outburst.

I don’t know how that could have soured so quickly.

Yeah, how do you get from lauding to coward in a few months? No idea how it could happen either. Good point.