Kempe Contract Watch Thread {Signed 8-year, $85 million - $10.63 AAV}

[Bollocks]

Now that we heard snarky, maybe you might try something a bit less condescending. I said in my post it was just a mental exercise. You seemed to take it as gospel.

The first trade that came to mind for me was not needing to make the Fiala move. If they had kept Faber they probably wouldn’t have picked Clarke. Or they could have used him in a trade if he was selected.

And I don’t think all the d’men would have been allowed to walk en masse.

I question if the PLD trade ever happened. I like daydreaming about Vilardi on the PP.

A 2C could have come from a later draft or deal while Stutzle-Kopitar-Kempe carried the team. Kopi’s retirement only became reality this year. There was time for a different plan.

Well, then maybe Rob would've traded Faber+Laferriere for Seth Jones...or would've signed him as a UFA for 10.5 instead.

And/or Vilardi for John Gibson.

Need I go on?

These double or triple layered "What if..." mental gymnastics really aren't very sensible. It's just too far out into the unknown.

 

[Clif]

Now that we heard snarky, maybe you might try something a bit less condescending. Overlaid in my post it was just a mental exercise. You seemed to take it as gospel.

The first trade that came to mind for me was not needing to make the Fiala move. If they had kept Faber they probably wouldn’t have picked Clarke. Or they could have used him in a trade if he was selected.

And I don’t think all the d’men would have been allowed to walk en masse.

I question if the PLD trade ever happened. I like daydreaming about Vilardi on the PP.

A 2C could have come from a later draft or deal while Stutzle-Kopitar-Kempe carried the team. Kopi’s retirement only became reality this year. There was time for a different plan.

I’m sympathetic to this kind of take because what Blake did in his tenure didn’t result in the success he sought. What-ifs are all any of us have now.

My what-ifs are much more along the lines of all the prospects he didn’t trade early. I find much more fault with that then taking Q over Stutzle and the cascading effects it brought. I will talk to anyone who will listen about the absolute winners Blake’s buddy Sakic brought in by trading prospects who turned into journeymen, tweeners, and bottom lineup players.

 

[What party?]

I have yet to see Kempe score off of his back/side.

 

[VCRW]

Well, then maybe Rob would've traded Faber+Laferriere for Seth Jones...or would've signed him as a UFA for 10.5 instead.

And/or Vilardi for John Gibson.

Need I go on?

These double or triple layered "What if..." mental gymnastics really aren't very sensible. It's just too far out into the unknown.

It’s not meant to be sensible. Loosen up, dude! What-ifs are supposed to be fun. What point are you making by being so judgmental? Let it go. We are all just filling up space until there is a contract or a trade.

 

[symbology]

Well, then maybe Rob would've traded Faber+Laferriere for Seth Jones...or would've signed him as a UFA for 10.5 instead.

And/or Vilardi for John Gibson.

Need I go on?

These double or triple layered "What if..." mental gymnastics really aren't very sensible. It's just too far out into the unknown.

Really? What is the problem with this particular discussion. The Kings had two good choices in either Byfield and Stutzle. Considering the "what ifs" if the draft pick went the other way is rather reasonable IMO. This is not a "what if" on some random nonsense.

QB was picked because the Kings thought that in time he would be the better player and the heir to the Kings throne. This plan has not come to fruition yet. In general, that is not a big deal as QB is a heck of a player, and may yet develop into the King of Kings some day.

Finally, this thread was created for "what ifs" and speculation until Kempe signs somewhere. If this type of conversation annoys you, please feel free to choose not to participate. You can ignore this thread and these posts. Pretty simple really.

 

[dneprovec]

Ovi just scored 900 goal.
He basically has nothing to do at Washington and it's his last season. Trade kempe for Ovi
And Ovi and Perry will be most dangerous 40 years old

 

[Bollocks]

Really? What is the problem with this particular discussion. The Kings had two good choices in either Byfield and Stutzle. Considering the "what ifs" if the draft pick went the other way is rather reasonable IMO. This is not a "what if" on some random nonsense.

QB was picked because the Kings thought that in time he would be the better player and the heir to the Kings throne. This plan has not come to fruition yet. In general, that is not a big deal as QB is a heck of a player, and may yet develop into the King of Kings some day.

Finally, this thread was created for "what ifs" and speculation until Kempe signs somewhere. If this type of conversation annoys you, please feel free to choose not to participate. You can ignore this thread and these posts. Pretty simple really.

It’s not meant to be sensible. Loosen up, dude! What-ifs are supposed to be fun. What point are you making by being so judgmental? Let it go. We are all just filling up space until there is a contract or a trade.

There's nothing wrong with these debates, of course, I just find this particualr debate of Stutzle vs. QB as a bit moot as in that it's actually just as likely for QB to develop into a bonafide 1st line center than it would be for Rob (and then Holland) to build an actual Cup contender had he drafted Stutzle.

Until QB hits a couple season long plateau and until Stutzle keeps up his play for a couple more seasons and leads Sens into playoff runs, drafting QB simply wasn't a mistake. The upside is the key here. The upside is that QB becomes a bonafide 1st line two-way center and if that happens, the Kings stand a chance to be contenders sooner rather than never for the new core.

It would be a different thought process if you consider Stutzle to be a possible trade piece...in which case he would have much more value from the get go, I agree. But if you consider them as building blocks for the future core, the above stated in my eyes holds true...especially in the times of less and less UFA availiability and the reality that LA simply can't attract top talent in the UFA market.

And as far as chances go I consider QB hitting his potential as #1 two-way franchise center as just as likely (or even more) as Stutzle making Rob a better GM...or a more lucky one...or LA being more attractive UFA destination. And for building a considerably better Cup contending team, all of these factors would have to be different in these past 5 seasons.


But in the end all is moot if Kempe doesn't resign with the Kings and Ken keeps being clueless...

 

[Pevsfreedom]

Ovi just scored 900 goal.
He basically has nothing to do at Washington and it's his last season. Trade kempe for Ovi
And Ovi and Perry will be most dangerous 40 years old

You may be onto something - the AARP Kings, maybe our uni will finally get some color!

 

[What party?]

There's nothing wrong with these debates, of course, I just find this particualr debate of Stutzle vs. QB as a bit moot as in that it's actually just as likely for QB to develop into a bonafide 1st line center than it would be for Rob (and then Holland) to build an actual Cup contender had he drafted Stutzle.

Until QB hits a couple season long plateau and until Stutzle keeps up his play for a couple more seasons and leads Sens into playoff runs, drafting QB simply wasn't a mistake. The upside is the key here. The upside is that QB becomes a bonafide 1st line two-way center and if that happens, the Kings stand a chance to be contenders sooner rather than never for the new core.

It would be a different thought process if you consider Stutzle to be a possible trade piece...in which case he would have much more value from the get go, I agree. But if you consider them as building blocks for the future core, the above stated in my eyes holds true...especially in the times of less and less UFA availiability and the reality that LA simply can't attract top talent in the UFA market.

And as far as chances go I consider QB hitting his potential as #1 two-way franchise center as just as likely (or even more) as Stutzle making Rob a better GM...or a more lucky one...or LA being more attractive UFA destination. And for building a considerably better Cup contending team, all of these factors would have to be different in these past 5 seasons.


But in the end all is moot if Kempe doesn't resign with the Kings and Ken keeps being clueless...

Pardon the interruption of your quazi beef with the dueling guitar avatars, Bullocks but, while I understand the logic and your specific boundary of not engaging in the fanfiction "what ifs"(which is your right to establish), they are kind of fun to read. And, LGK members putting logic to such fan fiction ( ^^^^) does kind of make it better. Not in an antagonistic way, just, you know dumb hockey nerd fun.

For example: During the New Jersey game there was a moment when Doughty looked up into the crowd of empty seats and you (well maybe just me) could almost see the thought bubble over his head stating "I should have been traded to Toronto instead of Muzzin". And, I kind of agree.

 

[Bollocks]

Ovi just scored 900 goal.
He basically has nothing to do at Washington and it's his last season. Trade kempe for Ovi
And Ovi and Perry will be most dangerous 40 years old

Pardon the interruption of your quazi beef with the dueling guitar avatars, Bullocks but, while I understand the logic and your specific boundary of not engaging in the fanfiction "what ifs"(which is your right to establish), they are kind of fun to read. And, LGK members putting logic to such fan fiction ( ^^^^) does kind of make it better. Not in an antagonistic way, just, you know dumb hockey nerd fun.

For example: During the New Jersey game there was a moment when Doughty looked up into the crowd of empty seats and you (well maybe just me) could almost see the thought bubble over his head stating "I should have been traded to Toronto instead of Muzzin". And, I kind of agree.

I just find the Stutzle conundrum as something akin to beating a dead horse. Sometimes I get flashbacks back into the good old days of "Kings will never win the Cup with Kopitar as the #1C" and "Kopitar is not an elite center".

Have some faith, y'all. It's not Rob that you're rooting for here, it's Quinton. And Rob is gone. We have (frankly bigger) problem now...

 

[What party?]

I just find the Stutzle conundrum as something akin to beating a dead horse. Sometimes I get flashbacks back into the good old days of "Kings will never win the Cup with Kopitar as the #1C" and "Kopitar is not an elite center".

Have some faith, y'all. It's not Rob that you're rooting for here, it's Quinton. And Rob is gone. We have (frankly bigger) problem now...

...is the problem they might re-hire him?

 

[McSorleyFan]

2 of the ways you can build a real contender:

Draft & Develop - like Tampa Bay, Colorado
Trade & Targeted Acquire - like Vegas, Florida

When the Kings won they developed and traded them for chips like Gaborik, Carter, Stoll, Greene, Williams but the bulk of their team was drafted and a couple of FAs (Willie, Scuds).

The LA Kings didn’t just collect stars — they built a culture of size, structure, and composure.
Drafted their pillars, traded for their clutch depth, and never deviated from their heavy, playoff-proven identity.

What is their identity now? I don't see one. I never know what team is showing up.

Kempe & Clarke is the team they should build around, IMO.

 

[Johnnysuede71]

2 of the ways you can build a real contender:

Draft & Develop - like Tampa Bay, Colorado
Trade & Targeted Acquire - like Vegas, Florida

When the Kings won they developed and traded them for chips like Gaborik, Carter, Stoll, Greene, Williams but the bulk of their team was drafted and a couple of FAs (Willie, Scuds).

The LA Kings didn’t just collect stars — they built a culture of size, structure, and composure.
Drafted their pillars, traded for their clutch depth, and never deviated from their heavy, playoff-proven identity.

What is their identity now? I don't see one. I never know what team is showing up.

Kempe & Clarke is the team they should build around, IMO.

I edited this for you....hope you don't mind.

"2 of the ways you can build a real contender:

Draft & Develop - like Tampa Bay, Colorado
Trade & Targeted Acquire (AND HAVE NO STATE INCOME TAX) - like Vegas, Florida"

There...much better.

Carry on.

 

[ICE24]

You may be onto something - the AARP Kings, maybe our uni will finally get some color!

They have silver helmets

 

[hokiecat]

There's nothing wrong with these debates, of course, I just find this particualr debate of Stutzle vs. QB as a bit moot as in that it's actually just as likely for QB to develop into a bonafide 1st line center than it would be for Rob (and then Holland) to build an actual Cup contender had he drafted Stutzle.

Until QB hits a couple season long plateau and until Stutzle keeps up his play for a couple more seasons and leads Sens into playoff runs, drafting QB simply wasn't a mistake. The upside is the key here. The upside is that QB becomes a bonafide 1st line two-way center and if that happens, the Kings stand a chance to be contenders sooner rather than never for the new core.

It would be a different thought process if you consider Stutzle to be a possible trade piece...in which case he would have much more value from the get go, I agree. But if you consider them as building blocks for the future core, the above stated in my eyes holds true...especially in the times of less and less UFA availiability and the reality that LA simply can't attract top talent in the UFA market.

And as far as chances go I consider QB hitting his potential as #1 two-way franchise center as just as likely (or even more) as Stutzle making Rob a better GM...or a more lucky one...or LA being more attractive UFA destination. And for building a considerably better Cup contending team, all of these factors would have to be different in these past 5 seasons.


But in the end all is moot if Kempe doesn't resign with the Kings and Ken keeps being clueless...

How disingenous is it to keep insisting that QB is amazing and that he's got some incredible upside? Seriously, take off the silver and black colored glasses and be objective. QB's likely upside is a generic 1C rather than franchise player. He's certainly not bad but to me projects as a really good player rather than a guy who gets a banner hung when he retires.

Point shares over their careers are 31 to 14. This season Stutzle leads 1.6 to 0.8. Most 2020 redrafts have QB somewhere around 6th.

Would you trade QB for Leo Carlsson straight up? A guy drafted 3 years after QB is absolutely killing it right now.

P.S. Holland should sign Kempe already.

 

[symbology]

I just find the Stutzle conundrum as something akin to beating a dead horse. Sometimes I get flashbacks back into the good old days of "Kings will never win the Cup with Kopitar as the #1C" and "Kopitar is not an elite center".

Have some faith, y'all. It's not Rob that you're rooting for here, it's Quinton. And Rob is gone. We have (frankly bigger) problem now...

I seem to recall those discussions focusing on his leadership abilities and folks (like me) were saying that Kopi was more of a passenger and not a driver. The Kings have not done jack squat since Kopi took over the C and that leadership group from cup days moved on. Not only have they not done anything in the playoffs, the team often plays soft, has no fight in it.

Back in the day Kopi was scoring as a top end legit 1C. Some did not see him as a great leader, or the type of player to lead a team to the promised land.

One of the bigger problems is Kopi is gone next year. QB may, or may not do a decent job replacing him. The Kings have no center to replace QB. Kopi leaving is creating a hole at center that will need filling. Kings have no spare assets to make a trade for one. Have crap luck at signing them.

 

[Halfwall]

So after tonight's travesty who still thinks signing a 30 year old Kempe for 8 years is a good idea? Holland has no choice but to call it quits on this team--sure he will fire Hiller first but when that fails...prepare for a 7+ year rebuild before even thinking about playoffs...see San Jose/Anaheim. Without Bob Miller, sticking around to watch this mess unfold will be a lot tougher than the post-Gretzky dark days were.

 

[Statue4Deano]

So after tonight's travesty who still thinks signing a 30 year old Kempe for 8 years is a good idea? Holland has no choice but to call it quits on this team--sure he will fire Hiller first but when that fails...prepare for a 7+ year rebuild before even thinking about playoffs...see San Jose/Anaheim. Without Bob Miller, sticking around to watch this mess unfold will be a lot tougher than the post-Gretzky dark days were.

For Kempe’s sake I hope he finishes the season with 50 goals, signs with the Sharks and wins a Cup in 2 seasons.

 

[Bollocks]

How disingenous is it to keep insisting that QB is amazing and that he's got some incredible upside? Seriously, take off the silver and black colored glasses and be objective. QB's likely upside is a generic 1C rather than franchise player. He's certainly not bad but to me projects as a really good player rather than a guy who gets a banner hung when he retires.

Point shares over their careers are 31 to 14. This season Stutzle leads 1.6 to 0.8. Most 2020 redrafts have QB somewhere around 6th.

Would you trade QB for Leo Carlsson straight up? A guy drafted 3 years after QB is absolutely killing it right now.

P.S. Holland should sign Kempe already.

I'm primarily arguing that the Kings would very unlikely be much better off had Rob drafted Stutzle. They would most likely still be a borderline PO team because Stutzle wouldn't magically fix the shortcomings of Rob&Luc&Bergevin and now Ken&Luc&Bergevin and certain issues the Kings still have. Perhaps they would manage to stunt Stutzle production well under ppg, too, just like they did with Fiala after his first season with the Kings. I think Rob would still trade for PLD (since the Kings would have even less potential top 6 at center position) and give Cal that ridiculous contract. He'd still trade Quick for Gavrikov and Korpisalo and Gavrikov would still walk for nothing.

There's very little evidence to suggest otherwise.


I'm not saying QB has an "incredible upside", but neither does Stutzle TBF (he's not MacKinnon). Lafreniere did, apparently...imagine if the Kings won the lottery. Would Rob also be blamed for taking the consensus 1st overall?


If QB reaches Kopitar's productivity and keeps up or even improves his two-way game with time (but most importantly decision making and faceoffs) he's not a worse pick than Stutzle by any considerable margin, unless Stutzle well surpasses his predicted ceiling in the future and does, in fact, become a player close to someone like MacKinnon.

Oh, and saying QB would be a "generic 1C" if he does reach 1C production on a regular basis (close to 1 ppg) - considering his intangibles like two-way game - is, in fact, disingineous.


I feel like half of this board is "at war" with all of Rob's legacy and all of his decisions will forever be tainted or simply dismissed. Even if Stutzle never wins anything ever and even if QB does eventually win a Cup (maybe with some other team) as an "uninspiring" #1C. That's why I brought up Kopitar - some LGKers back then decided he's not a good enough leader and was never going to be one and thus can't be instrumental in winning a Cup...and even after winning two with the Kings, some will never be satisfied enough because for some reason a HOF, 2-time Cup winning center just isn't good enough because he's not the type of player they would like their franchise star to be, and fail to see the myriad of intangibles he brings to the table.

Hell, Kempe may never develop into the player he is now had it not been for Kopitar. But I guess some people take things like that for granted...


PS: an interesting comparison with Leo. Fantilli was considered a more NHL-ready player - like Stutzle was, with Leo being a bit more "work in progress".

Maybe coach Q has something to do with Leo's sudden leap in production, and top offensive talent the Ducks put around him after a long rebuild...or maybe it was sheer luck and Leo would flourish regardless of a coach and linemates. I don't think it was their GM's genius of selecting him in draft instead of Fantilli though, same as it wasn't Rob's big mistake when choosing QB over Stutzle. If anything, Rob&Luc&Bergevin should be criticized for hiring Hiller and other roster decisions. And there was some bad luck with QB's injuries, too, but that's long gone now thankfully and hopefully Hiller gets replaced sooner rather than later with a coach that will have a better feeling as to how to help QB reach his potential.

I edited this for you....hope you don't mind.

"2 of the ways you can build a real contender:

Draft & Develop - like Tampa Bay, Colorado
Trade & Targeted Acquire (AND HAVE NO STATE INCOME TAX) - like Vegas, Florida"

There...much better.

Carry on.

Also, Vegas cheated.

 

[ICE24]

We understand the Kings will not win or improve through free agency, it has to be done with trades and the draft. Kempe will not sign, knowing a rebuild is going to happen. The rebuild starts with him being traded. It's going to be brutal for Kings fans for at least five years, however, been there done that.