Confirmed with Link Kings name Holland their 10th GM in History

If they can pick up Byrum, or any true LD1, then Clarke would see no PP time in addition to playing the least minutes among the 6 D. Not optimal for his growth as a complete player, but it’s the price the Kings need to pay to improve as a team. Just hope Clarke stays engaged and motivated. Winning is always the best panacea.

Wouldn’t it be a wonderful world if some team just had to have Drew Doughty?
Not willing to discard Doughty after an injury. I expect he will be here through his contract, perhaps beyond?
I think a lot depends on how he recovers during the off-season and what level he can play at.

Re Clarke the Kings are at the stage where players have to earn it. As you say, it’s the price to improve.
Clarke was better than I expected last year. He does have things to work on. He can get PP time on the second unit instead of Doughty.
 
Before Jack Eichel was traded to Vegas were you saying he had the intangibles to lead a Cup contender? Matthew Tkachuk? Nate MacKinnon? Steven Stamkos? Nikita Kucherov?

All of these guys were star players who never won a cup until they did. There’s no reason to believe Matthews or Marner won’t lead their team a cup if they have the right team built around them. Just like all those players above and throw in McDavid and Draisaital.

I see your point, but this is still a very big risk, especially as I don't think it can be done without a NMC. And I don't think Marner is that close to players you mentioned in terms of impact. Maybe Eichel and Tkachuk, but both have other intangibles that are very important come playoffs time and most of them were on stacked teams (one of them exploited loopholes in the CBA in order to ice that team for the playoffs).

The Kings are not stacked with such talent. Their chance is to try and emulate Panthers. Panthers have no high scoring, skill-first superstars that can afford to be "scoring passengers". They're built for PO hockey grind. Marner wouldn't help with that. Look at the Panthers' roster and their scoring spreads. No outliers they rely on for offense, just very balanced scoring all around.

Additionally, the Kings have historically "suppressed" quite a lot of high-end scorers when they came to this team.

Yes, Kings had big issues with PP this season, but Marner is surrounded by elite scorers in Matthews, Nylander, Tavares...is he going to be able to fix the Kings' PP with the Kings' main PP scoring threats being Kempe and the ever-enigmatic Fiala? Can the Kings rely on one player to fix one PP unit for the entire season+playoffs?

I mean, if you think about it Kopitar has not lead this team anywhere. Much of the leading was done by others when this team won its cups. That is the reality. I am still very grateful Kopi has been and is a King. Not trying to take anything away from him.

IMO Kopitar's leadership is more of a "grounded father figure", "team glue" type...he holds this team together, he represents loyalty and dedication to this sport.

He's a totally fine choice for a Captain.

It is however true that he needs to have a group of players around him that are different kind of leaders. And this is true for so many players. Kopitar is a bit similar to Datsyuk, but would Datsyuk win the cap-era Cup with Red Wings had he not been in a long-bearded winning culture with high character guys all over their roster? You could also argue Lidstrom wasn't your typical vocal captain either.

Look at this thread:


He was also the right choice. Calm, collected, talented, and experienced. It made perfect sense.

I think everyone saw him as the natural successor.


Whether or not Kopitar is or was the right Captain for this team is a non-issue. The problem always was that Lombardi failed to keep that team relevant in terms of personnel and Blake inherited an empty cupboard with very little room to improve without digging a hole so big it would last a decade.

Fact is - whoever thought Kopitar would ever "carry" this team on his back to the Cup was foolish, even McDavid has failed to do that so far, Crosby couldn't do it without Malkin, MAF and many others very talented players. Had Kopitar been the Captain back then and Brown the Ass.Captain, IMO the Kings win the Cup twice regardless.

And analog to this the Kings can't bank on a player like Marner to push this team over the edge (assuming nothing else on the roster changes in a meaningful way). I don't think Holland can afford to go all-in on one player while keeping the rest of the team more or less the same. There needs to be cap space left to assemble a legitimate 4th line, space for a top 4 D-man (resigning Gavy with a raise, or acquiring someone else), resigning Laf and eventually Kempe, too.

What this team really needs is Jack MF Johnson.

Yeah, but only so we can trade him for a player like Jeff Carter. ;)
 
Not willing to discard Doughty after an injury. I expect he will be here through his contract, perhaps beyond?
I think a lot depends on how he recovers during the off-season and what level he can play at.
I think you misunderstood my facetious comment. No team in their right mind would trade for a hobbled DD at $11 million per season… that contract is a millstone around the neck of the franchise.
 
Johnathan Toews
I think you misunderstood my facetious comment. No team in their right mind would trade for a hobbled DD at $11 million per season… that contract is a millstone around the neck of the franchise.
Let’s see what Holland does with Kempe, Kuz, Gavi and possibly going after Marner. After all, he’s the guy that signed Nurse to that $9.25 mill contract for a guy that’s not worth more than $7 mill tops.🤦🏼‍♂️
 
I see your point, but this is still a very big risk, especially as I don't think it can be done without a NMC. And I don't think Marner is that close to players you mentioned in terms of impact. Maybe Eichel and Tkachuk, but both have other intangibles that are very important come playoffs time and most of them were on stacked teams (one of them exploited loopholes in the CBA in order to ice that team for the playoffs).
Let’s not gloss over the fact that Marner is a 200-foot player. He was nominated for the Selke in 2023, an extremely rare feat for a winger. To get a defensively committed player who also scores at a 100 point pace is almost unheard of.

Yes signing him will require the largest free agent contract in team history but he’s still in his prime at 28 and even if his scoring takes a 20% hit he’s still a PPG forward on a team with that couldn’t score goals until a right shot forward with playmaking ability was added to the 1st and #1 PP.

As for the salary, my guess is it’ll take 14M cap hit to get him in LA. It’s a huge percentage of salary cap but as the cap grows that percentage shrinks and we’ve got Kopitar’s 7M coming off the books in 2026. You’ve also got a 4.2M winger in Trevor Moore who can be moved if Holland wants to add some size and character to the bottom six.

The #1 reason I’m advocating for Marner is because he’s available. The time to strike is now. There’s no point in this team keeping their powder dry for another year waiting for the perfect forward to be dropped in their laps.
 
Let’s not gloss over the fact that Marner is a 200-foot player. He was nominated for the Selke in 2023, an extremely rare feat for a winger. To get a defensively committed player who also scores at a 100 point pace is almost unheard of.

Yes signing him will require the largest free agent contract in team history but he’s still in his prime at 28 and even if his scoring takes a 20% hit he’s still a PPG forward on a team with that couldn’t score goals until a right shot forward with playmaking ability was added to the 1st and #1 PP.

As for the salary, my guess is it’ll take 14M cap hit to get him in LA. It’s a huge percentage of salary cap but as the cap grows that percentage shrinks and we’ve got Kopitar’s 7M coming off the books in 2026. You’ve also got a 4.2M winger in Trevor Moore who can be moved if Holland wants to add some size and character to the bottom six.

The #1 reason I’m advocating for Marner is because he’s available. The time to strike is now. There’s no point in this team keeping their powder dry for another year waiting for the perfect forward to be dropped in their laps.
The only thing Marner lacks is size but he makes up for it elsewhere. If I'm the Kings, I would offer him a $14m AAV without any hesitation.

Looking at him, he is averaging over a point per game and a career +128 in the regular season, and almost a point per game and career +9 in the playoffs (on a team which has struggled come playoff time). He also averages less than 25 PIM per season (doesn't often take penalties let alone bad penalties), and a 13.3 SPCT which is higher than our top sniper, Kempe (12.7). On top of this, he has found success in every league he has been in, and international competition.

This guy is 100% the real deal.
 
The only thing Marner lacks is size but he makes up for it elsewhere. If I'm the Kings, I would offer him a $14m AAV without any hesitation.

Looking at him, he is averaging over a point per game and a career +128 in the regular season, and almost a point per game and career +9 in the playoffs (on a team which has struggled come playoff time). He also averages less than 25 PIM per season (doesn't often take penalties let alone bad penalties), and a 13.3 SPCT which is higher than our top sniper, Kempe (12.7). On top of this, he has found success in every league he has been in, and international competition.

This guy is 100% the real deal.
Finished 2nd on the team this PO season with 1.0 PPG. Scored two more points than Mathews.

Maybe there is just to much fan pressure in Toronto? Especially during home games? Maybe that team is just missing something. They came out on the road in game 6 and played a great game. Came home for game 7 and could not get going.
 
Finished 2nd on the team this PO season with 1.0 PPG. Scored two more points than Mathews.

Maybe there is just to much fan pressure in Toronto? Especially during home games? Maybe that team is just missing something. They came out on the road in game 6 and played a great game. Came home for game 7 and could not get going.
There’s some interesting parallels to Jeff Carter and Philadelphia. A Philadelphia team that could never get over the hump even with Mike Richards in his prime as Captain.

Pronger, Carter, Richards, Briere, Giroux and Hartnell took a lot of flack from the Philly locals because they couldn’t get over the hump. Flyers fans and the media soured on Carter first because the consensus was he wasn’t a playoff performer… It’s funny how putting a supremely talented player in the right setting will allow him to perform better.
 
The only thing Marner lacks is size but he makes up for it elsewhere. If I'm the Kings, I would offer him a $14m AAV without any hesitation.

Looking at him, he is averaging over a point per game and a career +128 in the regular season, and almost a point per game and career +9 in the playoffs (on a team which has struggled come playoff time). He also averages less than 25 PIM per season (doesn't often take penalties let alone bad penalties), and a 13.3 SPCT which is higher than our top sniper, Kempe (12.7). On top of this, he has found success in every league he has been in, and international competition.

This guy is 100% the real deal.
This is a reply to you and Deano, who both make strong arguments FOR Marner.
I understand this is not an easy question to answer given your positions, but I’m kinda asking you to argue against yourselves for a bit.

Aside from the obvious and superficial reasons like “he won’t fit”, “he’s too small when the Kings need bigger & meaner”, or “Toronto is full of chokers” what do you guys see as the counter-argument? What have you seen that gives you pause or hesitancy?

In truth, I am really torn on Marner. I see the upside. But this would be one of those deals where you cannot be wrong. Tons of cap space, an NMC…it drastically impedes the Kings if this is a miss.
However, I don’t know that any players are unmovable regardless of dollars and clauses. If the Kings can dump DuBois…

Just curious as to whether you guys see things that could be problematic.
 
There’s some interesting parallels to Jeff Carter and Philadelphia. A Philadelphia team that could never get over the hump even with Mike Richards in his prime as Captain.

Pronger, Carter, Richards, Briere, Giroux and Hartnell took a lot of flack from the Philly locals because they couldn’t get over the hump. Flyers fans and the media soured on Carter first because the consensus was he wasn’t a playoff performer… It’s funny how putting a supremely talented player in the right setting will allow him to perform better.
He was surrounded by talent in Toronto and he didn't do much with it come playoff time. Did you see that blind, backhand pizza he threw up the middle in game 5? Appalling. Best assist of the playoffs series, and it was to the other team for an important goal. Has played in 20 playoff games 5-7. Has 7 points in those big games.

13 points in 13 playoff games this season. Great! Games 5-7 against FL? 1A -3 3SOG. Give that 28 year-old-guy $14M/7 and hope and pray he changes his stripes in the hardest games? That's a hell of a $100M bet to make.

I don't give a rat's ass what he does in the regular season. He can score 200 points per season. Who cares? The only teams which care about what happens in the regular season are sh*tty ones. Good teams are measured only by how they do in the playoffs. Hopefully, the Kings have reached that stage. You're going to pay a fortune to a guy who is at best a question mark in the playoffs and hope it's the team around him (which has far more offensive talent than the Kings) that's the problem?
 
There’s some interesting parallels to Jeff Carter and Philadelphia. A Philadelphia team that could never get over the hump even with Mike Richards in his prime as Captain.

Pronger, Carter, Richards, Briere, Giroux and Hartnell took a lot of flack from the Philly locals because they couldn’t get over the hump. Flyers fans and the media soured on Carter first because the consensus was he wasn’t a playoff performer… It’s funny how putting a supremely talented player in the right setting will allow him to perform better.
Wow, great point. I had forgotten about that angle and that Flyers team.
 
'Additionally, the Kings have historically "suppressed" quite a lot of high-end scorers when they came to this team.'

This seems to be a theme throughout discussions about the Kings defensive 'system' being a major turn-off to elite scorers. Would love to hear some really strong examples of who we have brought in that fit this description and ended up 'suppressed'? Since Palffy I can't think of a single elite talent the Kings have acquired...whether by trade or free agency...that fits this description. The fact is in the last 10 years we haven't had a Marner or a Matthews or a McDavid to 'suppress'. Sorry but this mindset confuses me.
 
'Additionally, the Kings have historically "suppressed" quite a lot of high-end scorers when they came to this team.'

This seems to be a theme throughout discussions about the Kings defensive 'system' being a major turn-off to elite scorers. Would love to hear some really strong examples of who we have brought in that fit this description and ended up 'suppressed'? Since Palffy I can't think of a single elite talent the Kings have acquired...whether by trade or free agency...that fits this description. The fact is in the last 10 years we haven't had a Marner or a Matthews or a McDavid to 'suppress'. Sorry but this mindset confuses me.
Carter was a big time scorer. Kempe could probably pop for 50+ in the right system
 
Pretty much, yeah. That’s the downside. Of course Hiller should also decrease Doughty’s ice time. Should…
Hiller has shown no inclination to decrease Drew’s TOI. Would you want to be the guy who tells Doughty he is off the PP?😁
 
Carter was a big time scorer. Kempe could probably pop for 50+ in the right system
Carter's best year was his 4th season in Philly with 84 points. Since then he never passed 70 including two more seasons in Philly (with the same system and line that got him 84) and then with the Kings....when he played a whole season (or at least close to one) he averaged mid 60s in points and then gradually fell off for all the normal reasons....age...injuries etc. Pretty sure these numbers don't qualify anyone as 'big time'. As for Kempe...as much as I love his game and his obvious skating and scoring prowess....are we really putting him the generational or elite conversation as well?

The point I was responding to was that the Kings are where great scorers 'go to die' and that's what keeps them away. I simply don't see the evidence to support that being the case. Why don't we actually try and get ONE first before we make that assessment? We haven't had one yet.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top