Marner Watch

Statue4Deano said:
Unfortunate? Many people were saying he’s so small and soft he surely won’t be a factor come playoff time. Kings should have no problem getting past Vegas now!
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Eichel may not be McPrincess and Marner isn't Crysaddle either but those two will likely still give us problems in the regular season if the Kings are trying to make it to the playoffs again. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves. And we know Vegas loves to swing for the fences when it comes to big name players in the market.
 
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JC6388LAKings said:
I'm not surprised. And I'm actually one of the few here who didn't want him (Marner) in our team. Well, the unfortunate thing is that now the Kings have to deal with both him and Eichel, not just McOverrated and Crysaddle.
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That's another reason you want him on our team & not our division rival.
 
Clif said:
At one point Kings were ranked 1, 1, and 2 overall for their prospect pool. Not all will work out, but clearly a few Blake was counting on simply didn’t. Kaliyev and Bjornfot are the big ones, and you can put Turcotte and Thomas in their own category of disappointment.

Bigger issue is he failed to trade assets. Vegas has used assets for trades that have really panned out. So has Colorado. Blake made one successful trade using a prospect chip and that was Fiala. That he could never parlay any of these pieces into more help on the left side is malpractice.
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This is the problem. It's not drafting. That's fine. It's mismanaging assets. You can't put every drafted player in the lineup. So you have to turn these picks & prospects into something. And the Kings haven't in the way that Florida or Vegas has.

I don't know if there's a draft expert out there who's figured out what the percentages of draft picks from each round become successful NHL players, like 1st round is X%, 2nd round is Y%, etc. I imagine the Kings are more successful in later rounds than earlier ones. Then once you know that can you look what we got for them or didn't get? And then see if we're more or less successful based on those percentages? For example, would losing Johnny Brodzinski or Dominik Kubalik matter more if they were early rather than late round picks? Or is losing them bad no mater what? Someone smarter than me who's got more time should figure that out.
 
santiclaws said:
You've got it backwards. If he's traded to Vegas, as he's expected to be today, there'll be no tampering charge because TO won't file a complaint. And even if the trade falls through, they wouldn't lose Marner, they may lose a pick or two. So this thread can be renamed "Watch Marner go to Vegas."
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I wonder if another team could file tampering charges, or even the league itself start an investigation? Or does it have to be the team that lost him? But doesn't it seem like trading Nic Roy to Toronto for Marner is like slipping $100 to a traffic cop so he won't write you a speeding ticket?
 
Statue4Deano said:
Missing on the #5 pick is not a big deal in and of itself. (Lombardi missed at #4 in ‘07 @ #13 in ‘08) My broader point was missing consistently in Rounds 1 & 2 which happened a lot under Blake puts the team behind the 8 ball in terms of assets. The league standard rate at which 1st and 2nd round picks become NHLers is significantly greater than rounds 3-7.

Dwindling assets is why the Kings are where they’re at today in terms of prospect pool and 4 consecutive years of being bounced in the 1st round of the playoffs.
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Clif said:
At one point Kings were ranked 1, 1, and 2 overall for their prospect pool. Not all will work out, but clearly a few Blake was counting on simply didn’t. Kaliyev and Bjornfot are the big ones, and you can put Turcotte and Thomas in their own category of disappointment.

Bigger issue is he failed to trade assets. Vegas has used assets for trades that have really panned out. So has Colorado. Blake made one successful trade using a prospect chip and that was Fiala. That he could never parlay any of these pieces into more help on the left side is malpractice.
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I agree about letting too many assets lose too much value/walk for nothing. But that is often a part of a (wannabe) contender teams/win-now approach. You have no/very little room to give them NHL time to develop their skills and showcase them, so...the only real alternative is trading them while they're still relatively fresh out of the draft. But how many of us would want that? We hated DL for doing just that in his later years - mortgaging the future for failed win-now attempts, despite the fact that he actually proved he CAN build a (multiple) Cup winner.

Besides, how many teams have proven this ruthless, loyalty-free, dumpster diving wheelin'-dealin' works as a way to get to the Cup? Vegas and Florida, really. That means there's 97% NHL GMs out there who don't know how to do that. And Vegas couldn't do it without LTIR cap circumvention either that will soon be (hopefully) impossible to pull off anymore.

And I've been saying Ken doesn't know how to do this wheelin' and dealin' any more than Rob does and it looks like he won't attract many more good UFAs either, so...yeah. Replacing Rob with Ken will most likely be pretty much a wash performance-wise (unless QB, Clarke take very big steps forward and Greentree slots right in as a 2nd line threat) and we can only hope he won't sacrifice MORE future than Rob did in the process of failing to build a winner in the short-term.
 
Bollocks said:
I agree about letting too many assets lose too much value/walk for nothing. But that is often a part of a (wannabe) contender teams/win-now approach. You have no/very little room to give them NHL time to develop their skills and showcase them, so...the only real alternative is trading them while they're still relatively fresh out of the draft. But how many of us would want that? We hated DL for doing just that in his later years - mortgaging the future for failed win-now attempts, despite the fact that he actually proved he CAN build a (multiple) Cup winner.

Besides, how many teams have proven this ruthless, loyalty-free, dumpster diving wheelin'-dealin' works as a way to get to the Cup? Vegas and Florida, really. That means there's 97% NHL GMs out there who don't know how to do that. And Vegas couldn't do it without LTIR cap circumvention either that will soon be (hopefully) impossible to pull off anymore.

And I've been saying Ken doesn't know how to do this wheelin' and dealin' any more than Rob does and it looks like he won't attract many more good UFAs either, so...yeah. Replacing Rob with Ken will most likely be pretty much a wash performance-wise (unless QB, Clarke take very big steps forward and Greentree slots right in as a 2nd line threat) and we can only hope he won't sacrifice MORE future than Rob did in the process of failing to build a winner in the short-term.
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I get that this is much easier said than done territory, but part of the job is to make educated guesses on the assets you have. And if you have enough prospects that you’re regarded that highly, you have to take some gambles. Now we’re in a position where Holland basically can’t trade Greentree because there’s not enough forward talent around him to take that risk.

The summer after Arty puts up double digit goals on the fourth line but can’t remotely hang on the first and treads water on the second, that’s the time to move him. Not once McClellan effectively removes him from the lineup the following season.

If there’s any possibility Bjornfot is being sent down after camp, don’t even let it get that far.

Thomas got the golden goal. Good time to sell. There were plenty of other forwards still in the pipeline to justify that move.

Instead, Blake always had to “see what he had.” I get it, but when you do that, everyone else sees it, too.
 
Clif said:
I get that this is much easier said than done territory, but part of the job is to make educated guesses on the assets you have. And if you have enough prospects that you’re regarded that highly, you have to take some gambles. Now we’re in a position where Holland basically can’t trade Greentree because there’s not enough forward talent around him to take that risk.

The summer after Arty puts up double digit goals on the fourth line but can’t remotely hang on the first and treads water on the second, that’s the time to move him. Not once McClellan effectively removes him from the lineup the following season.

If there’s any possibility Bjornfot is being sent down after camp, don’t even let it get that far.

Thomas got the golden goal. Good time to sell. There were plenty of other forwards still in the pipeline to justify that move.

Instead, Blake always had to “see what he had.” I get it, but when you do that, everyone else sees it, too.
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But then there's also a question of depth and cost controlled players.

Sending Bjornfot down wasn't a mistake, a mistake would be to trade him and everyone similar too soon, as young players would become wary of signing with this team eventually. By this logic why not trade QB in 2021? 1 assist in 6 games, surely he's gonna be a bust, let's trade him before his draft position and youth scout reports aura fades away!

Bjornfot simply hasn't panned out. Spence did well enough despite being a 4th rnd pick. He took the chance and showed he can play and learn some more. And when he became redundant he returned twice the value he cost this team in the draft. But the move still made half of LGK angry...
 
Bollocks said:
But then there's also a question of depth and cost controlled players.

Sending Bjornfot down wasn't a mistake, a mistake would be to trade him and everyone similar too soon, as young players would become wary of signing with this team eventually. By this logic why not trade QB in 2021? 1 assist in 6 games, surely he's gonna be a bust, let's trade him before his draft position and youth scout reports aura fades away!

Bjornfot simply hasn't panned out. Spence did well enough despite being a 4th rnd pick. He took the chance and showed he can play and learn some more. And when he became redundant he returned twice the value he cost this team in the draft. But the move still made half of LGK angry...
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You’re a smart poster but this is quite the reach. I never said trade all. I said some. What Blake did was practically trade none. And young players aren’t going to be wary of signing ELCs because the team that drafted them traded someone. They don’t exactly have much leverage and also they have heard about hockey trades before.

I am all for cost-controlled players. We have several right now. But you can only carry so many. You need some medium and big ticket players too.

There’s no comparison to a player taken 2nd overall and Bjornfot. We all know the difference between a guy who’s gotten some games like Kaliyev and Bjornfot vs. Byfield and Clarke.

Spence. I know it’s Holland now and Blake made this decision last summer, but this entire situation with Spence is a joke. If you’re letting Roy walk for nothing, you had damn well have a clear plan for Spence to play. I get that Spence had a worse season and playoffs this year than last, but Hiller still knew both players. He and Blake were well aware Clarke would be graduating to the NHL. You stick with Spence and let him play or you should just be paying Matt Roy 5.5M and have traded Spence last summer. That Roy contract sounds pretty great right now doesn’t it?
 
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