Panarin to Kings

[Clif]

This is my issue with Elias. I just don’t see him having the competitive edge, and I really think that’s been an area of real concern with the Kings lately. I don’t think bringing in more of that is wise at all.
We have all probably had coworkers who were only there for the paycheck. That is precisely how I view Elias.

The rub on Elias is a guy who cashed in right after he and all the rest of that team had the PDO season of their lives. Then the following season Miller was disgusted with his lack of effort. And now he is the top line center for the worst team in the NHL who is still not elevating his game in any way after VAN essentially chose him over Miller. This led in part to Hughes wanting to leave because he was basically the only guy on the team who still gave a ****.

So, who wants to take that on at $11.6 a year? Imagine a team who desperately needs a first line center and doesn’t have the assets to make the trade for Thomas.

 

[Bollocks]

The rub on Elias is a guy who cashed in right after he and all the rest of that team had the PDO season of their lives. Then the following season Miller was disgusted with his lack of effort. And now he is the top line center for the worst team in the NHL who is still not elevating his game in any way after VAN essentially chose him over Miller. This led in part to Hughes wanting to leave because he was basically the only guy on the team who still gave a ****.

So, who wants to take that on at $11.6 a year? Imagine a team who desperately needs a first line center and doesn’t have the assets to make the trade for Thomas.

Exactly.

VAN should retain 2-3 million...and I think that would be a given for any trade partner.

Are there red flags? Absolutely.

What are the alternatives? Well...there aren't many, at least on long term contracts. Maybe Ken goes into a direction of a center that's on Panarin's timeline, but that would be a bit of a f*** you to Kempe.

 

[Clif]

Exactly.

VAN should retain 2-3 million...and I think that would be a given for any trade partner.

Are there red flags? Absolutely.

What are the alternatives? Well...there aren't many, at least on long term contracts. Maybe Ken goes into a direction of a center that's on Panarin's timeline, but that would be a bit of a f*** you to Kempe.

The red flags are what make him attainable in the first place. Given that the rebuild failed and this team isn’t going for a youth-movement retool over the next 2 years I’m Petterson curious. Because as you said, there are basically no alternatives.

2-3M is a lot to retain for 6 more years, and if the Kings take on the full salary that’s less they have to give up and instantly makes them more competitive to get him. It’d be ideal if they could send a contract back the other way though, because what does VAN care about a Ceci or Dumo contract for 2-3 years? They’re rebuilding.

 

[Bollocks]

The red flags are what make him attainable in the first place. Given that the rebuild failed and this team isn’t going for a youth-movement retool over the next 2 years I’m Petterson curious. Because as you said, there are basically no alternatives.

2-3M is a lot to retain for 6 more years, and if the Kings take on the full salary that’s less they have to give up and instantly makes them more competitive to get him. It’d be ideal if they could send a contract back the other way though, because what does VAN care about a Ceci or Dumo contract for 2-3 years? They’re rebuilding.

A good point about Ceci/Dumo going back, not a bad idea. They're going to need some veteran bodies to fight through the rebuild anyways. Still, I don't think 2 million for 6 years is that bad of a hit for a rebuilding team. The likelihood of them "completing" the rebuild within those 6 years to the point of spending up to the cap on superstars is very low, especially with the recent trend of devoid UFA market...

 

[Clif]

A good point about Ceci/Dumo going back, not a bad idea. They're going to need some veteran bodies to fight through the rebuild anyways. Still, I don't think 2 million for 6 years is that bad of a hit for a rebuilding team. The likelihood of them "completing" the rebuild within those 6 years to the point of spending up to the cap on superstars is very low, especially with the recent trend of devoid UFA market...

True - especially with a rising cap. But no retainment still means full absolution, and that can make a package more enticing if offers are close. Also rebuilds lose money and the owner might not want to spend $12-18M on nothing.

 

[DoubleMinor]

But keeping Kuz at 4 million (I doubt he gets much more) + TO at 4 and trading Fiala at nearly 8 to address those greater needs saves the Kings almost 4 million and we end up significantly on the positive regarding asset +/- when all is said and done.

Sure, Kuz isn't as good as Fiala, but if TO shows consistent efford and chemistry with QB for the remainder of this season one has to wonder if it's worth keeping him and potentially making the line combinations difficult.

All this is, of course, highly dependent on which teams are on Fiala's NMC exemption list. But IMO Ken should seriously consider this scenario and explore the options...

I really like Fiala. Yes, he is frustrating. But he’s also a producer and the Kings need him to put up points.
One big issue tho with Fiala is getting him with the players that can play with him. He’s unique and guys who are structured don’t mesh. It’s complicated to play with Fiala.

Kuzy may well sign for about 4M. And that’s not a bad thing for the Kings. I just don’t know that the Kings can afford to give up a 25-30 goal scorer.

 

[Bollocks]

True - especially with a rising cap. But no retainment still means full absolution, and that can make a package more enticing if offers are close. Also rebuilds lose money and the owner might not want to spend $12-18M on nothing.

Isn't retaining cap retaining just the cap and not the actual salary? I might've confused.

You're right, the owner might have adverse opinion on that. Though it's Vancouver, I doubt they will have issues selling out even during rebuild.

If the price is right, Ken should look into it if he wants to trade for Elias. The Kings are in a position where cap management is very improtant if there is no intent for a rebuild. Not to mention that "resale" value for Elias, if he gets traded eventually away from the Kings, would be higher, too, since the cap would be lower.

I really like Fiala. Yes, he is frustrating. But he’s also a producer and the Kings need him to put up points.
One big issue tho with Fiala is getting him with the players that can play with him. He’s unique and guys who are structured don’t mesh. It’s complicated to play with Fiala.

Kuzy may well sign for about 4M. And that’s not a bad thing for the Kings. I just don’t know that the Kings can afford to give up a 25-30 goal scorer.

Structured don't mesh, Byfield don't mesh...who meshes then? lol

But Kuzmenko can easily reach 20 goals, and if those 4 million and assets from Fiala trade mean that an offensively capable D-man can is brought to the team, or an elite-ish center, surely that amounts to more than simply keeping Fiala and standing pat and doing nothing much to improve the roster.

Of course, there's always the option for spending key prospects that are fairly close to maybe making it (i.e. Woolley or Bruz) for this roster upgrading, akin to trading Greentree, but I really don't want that to happen. One first rounder, a couple of 2nds, Carter George and one of the mid level prospects (i.e. Cihar) would be my "limit".

 

[Clif]

Isn't retaining cap retaining just the cap and not the actual salary? I might've confused.

You're right, the owner might have adverse opinion on that. Though it's Vancouver, I doubt they will have issues selling out even during rebuild.

If the price is right, Ken should look into it if he wants to trade for Elias. The Kings are in a position where cap management is very improtant if there is no intent for a rebuild. Not to mention that "resale" value for Elias, if he gets traded eventually away from the Kings, would be higher, too, since the cap would be lower.

Maybe i am confused but far as I know dollars retained mean exactly that. When Blake took on two years of Provorov’s contract in part of getting out from under Cal, Kings paid 2M for two years.

I think that even if the franchise can eat 12-18M over 6 years, doesn’t matter how many sellouts there are or how early in the rebuild you are. You always want maximum flexibility.

The Kings can afford Petterson next year, the following year Doughty is off the books or cheaper, then the following year Panarin is off the books or cheaper. All while the cap goes up. That said, it’s still a significant gamble and I’m curious but not enjoying that this is what we’re talking about.

 

[Bollocks]

Maybe i am confused but far as I know dollars retained mean exactly that. When Blake took on two years of Provorov’s contract in part of getting out from under Cal, Kings paid 2M for two years.

I think that even if the franchise can eat 12-18M over 6 years, doesn’t matter how many sellouts there are or how early in the rebuild you are. You always want maximum flexibility.

The Kings can afford Petterson next year, the following year Doughty is off the books or cheaper, then the following year Panarin is off the books or cheaper. All while the cap goes up. That said, it’s still a significant gamble and I’m curious but not enjoying that this is what we’re talking about.

Those are all good points.

 

[Clif]

Those are all good points.

Thanks! Although last night’s game made me a little less Petterson curious. Abysmal in the faceoff, not dangerous around the net, big but kinda slow, even got beat to a puck by Mallott.

I mean stick Byfield next Panarin the point machine and Kempe the best overall player and he’ll be a first line center enough. Still won’t have a second line center (and possibly not a real first) but maybe better to endure that for a season or two than Petterson for six. It’s fresh start hope with him, straight up. And that’s scary.

 

[Sin-bin]

Honestly, I only started paying attention to Pettersson after the trade rumors, and in the last two games against the Kings he was pretty much invisible.

 

[DoubleMinor]

Honestly, I only started paying attention to Pettersson after the trade rumors, and in the last two games against the Kings he was pretty much invisible.

The Kings do not need any players who don’t really care.

 

[DryKing]

The Kings do not need any players who don’t really care.

Sad thing was out of the two Pettersson's on the ice, he was the far less visible one.

There was one play where he was behind the net in the offensive zone, looked to receive a pass from his teammate which was off the mark, lazily just extended his leg to the try to stop the puck then just watched as it went off his skate and up towards the blue line. No effort to try to hunt it down, nada. Thing is, he clearly had the talent to stop and it make a world-class play (which is what it would have taken given the bad pass), but lacked the effort. Kempe did something similar later in the game and put in the effort to pull it off.

It's strange to say, but I believe when you are talented and a figurehead of a team you need to work even that much harder to stay relevant. Guys like Crosby and McDavid don't take a night off, or rest on their skill - they always work to improve. Players with talent like Pettersson who don't work harder then everyone else on the team to improve always seem to fade away.

 

[DoubleMinor]

Sad thing was out of the two Pettersson's on the ice, he was the far less visible one.

There was one play where he was behind the net in the offensive zone, looked to receive a pass from his teammate which was off the mark, lazily just extended his leg to the try to stop the puck then just watched as it went off his skate and up towards the blue line. No effort to try to hunt it down, nada. Thing is, he clearly had the talent to stop and it make a world-class play (which is what it would have taken given the bad pass), but lacked the effort. Kempe did something similar later in the game and put in the effort to pull it off.

It's strange to say, but I believe when you are talented and a figurehead of a team you need to work even that much harder to stay relevant. Guys like Crosby and McDavid don't take a night off, or rest on their skill - they always work to improve. Players with talent like Pettersson who don't work harder than everyone else on the team to improve always seem to fade away.

I have been against Elias for these reasons. I just don’t think he truly wants to be a leader or an impact player. He just seems to want to take the easy path and that just doesn’t work in the NHL. I want no part of him.

 

[JC6388LAKings]

I have been against Elias for these reasons. I just don’t think he truly wants to be a leader or an impact player. He just seems to want to take the easy path and that just doesn’t work in the NHL. I want no part of him.

Sounds like PLD or Daigle to me. If that's the case, then no thanks. We don't want him in our roster.

 

[Clif]

Curious what direction SEA goes after Francis stepped down. Embrace a rebuild or pretend they can be competitive. Word this season was Shane Wright is expensive but could be had for an impact forward. I think Fiala could that done.

But maybe they are looking more at futures? I like the of this year’s 1st, a 2nd, Turcotte and one of Kirsanov/Salin/Wright/Connors/Cihar

 

[DryKing]

Curious what direction SEA goes after Francis stepped down. Embrace a rebuild or pretend they can be competitive. Word this season was Shane Wright is expensive but could be had for an impact forward. I think Fiala could that done.

But maybe they are looking more at futures? I like the of this year’s 1st, a 2nd, Turcotte and one of Kirsanov/Salin/Wright/Connors/Cihar

Personally I don't think Wright is worth this year's 1st alone, let alone all that. Turcotte and a 2nd seems pretty fair considering the Kings 2nd should be relatively high.

There is a reason SEA want's to move him. Granted they are deeper at Center than other positions, but still if they truly had confidence in him they wouldn't have put his name out there (imo).

 

[Halfwall]

Honestly, I only started paying attention to Pettersson after the trade rumors, and in the last two games against the Kings he was pretty much invisible.

I wonder how much Kempe might know about him, their hometowns aren't that far apart.

 

[Clif]

Personally I don't think Wright is worth this year's 1st alone, let alone all that. Turcotte and a 2nd seems pretty fair considering the Kings 2nd should be relatively high.

There is a reason SEA want's to move him. Granted they are deeper at Center than other positions, but still if they truly had confidence in him they wouldn't have put his name out there (imo).

I think he’s totally worth this year’s first. Young center. Only putting up half a point a game so far but there’s room for growth. A lot better than what Turc has shown.

My concern is that SEA is only trading him for an established top 6 forward. That’s what’s been reported. But if futures and Turcotte could get him, it’d have to be a number of pieces. I think he’d be well worth that.

 

[Bollocks]

Thanks! Although last night’s game made me a little less Petterson curious. Abysmal in the faceoff, not dangerous around the net, big but kinda slow, even got beat to a puck by Mallott.

I mean stick Byfield next Panarin the point machine and Kempe the best overall player and he’ll be a first line center enough. Still won’t have a second line center (and possibly not a real first) but maybe better to endure that for a season or two than Petterson for six. It’s fresh start hope with him, straight up. And that’s scary.

I agree. The concern here is that this Kings' team isn't on the rise as a perennial contender. It could face a decline and a rebuild before Elias' contract is up which would likely cause him to sulk again. That said, maybe he boosts his value in the meantime enough to make this a buy low, sell high situation.