PLD and how I learned to quit worrying about the bomb

DryKing said:
I'm assuming you are referencing +/- ?

If so, unfortunately quite a few forwards, including HoFers and this Year's All-Stars, have a negative +/-. Look at Jack Hughes, for instance, who has 55 points in 43 games and is a -7. Or Stutzle who has 54 points in 57 games and is a -5. There is no doubt they are each two of the best players on their teams (Jack by far being the best on his team in the case of NJ) yet they have been on the ice for more even strength goals against than for.

In the case of Fiala he also has 22 PP points which we know does not count towards that ratio and doesn't play on the PK. That said, he is actually on the ice for ~15 goals more than goals against (not counting any goals the opposing team scored while Kevin was on the ice during the PP).

Grundy, JAD, Englund, Clarke, Laf and PLD are all actually in the negative when it comes to goals for / against while on the ice (including PP and PK) so this is truly the case in which one on that list is not like the rest.

I believe it was Fox who recently called out that Kevin is the first on the ice and usually one of the last to leave the ice after practice, continually putting in the extra time to try and improve his game. That particular habit is as an example the rest of the team should follow. Additionally all comments by his peers, publicly, have been very positive about Fiala and what he brings to the team. Kempe in particular has given him very high praise, as did McLellan.

In summation, if Doughty was actually trying to point a finger at Fiala (which I realize is a popular belief) then my opinion is that he is mistaken in doing so.
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Correct. Fox made the statement after he scored the pp goal.
 
Rog or Reg? said:
Great post, thanks! Very informative and those numbers are really eye-opening.

Hard to disagree with any of that. Sometimes numbers can indeed be deceiving, especially in hockey. And there's always those intangibles players speak about.

In the case of PLD, it's not just his abysmal plus-minus, it's the eye test, which he fails miserably. He just doesn't appear to be playing with intensity. He certainly appears to have the physical ability; his problem appears to be more above the neck.

Such a shame too. If he played as hard as ssy Fiala or Lizotte, he might be one of the best players in the NHL. But right now he looks more like a figure skater than a hockey player and that's not a good look considering his price tag.
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Miserable failure of the eye test.
 
hokiecat said:
Blake's replacement must buy him out this summer. You can't have an 8.5M black hole for the next 7 years and we have to do it while PLD is still 25.
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No easy answer. Bluc pushed all in and now are dying on the vine. Losing kempe and arvy made it even more clear that pld should not be part of the not so easy solution. Trade, buyout .....?

A few weeks ago at least was thinking a huberdeau trade, but huberdeau is much better now.
 
kingsjohn said:
Fiala is fine?
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Also:

Kevin Fiala “playing as well as I’ve seen him”, in the eyes of teammates and coaches"​


lakingsinsider.com

Kevin Fiala "playing as well as I've seen him", in the eyes of teammates and coaches - LA Kings Insider

Coming out of the All-Star break, Kevin Fiala was doing a lot of the right things. He just wasn’t getting rewarded for them offensively. Fiala did not score in the first game out of the break, the 4-0 victory over Edmonton, and he didn’t score in any of the four games on the team’s final […]
lakingsinsider.com lakingsinsider.com
 
Pevsfreedom said:
Also:

Kevin Fiala “playing as well as I’ve seen him”, in the eyes of teammates and coaches"​


lakingsinsider.com

Kevin Fiala "playing as well as I've seen him", in the eyes of teammates and coaches - LA Kings Insider

Coming out of the All-Star break, Kevin Fiala was doing a lot of the right things. He just wasn’t getting rewarded for them offensively. Fiala did not score in the first game out of the break, the 4-0 victory over Edmonton, and he didn’t score in any of the four games on the team’s final […]
lakingsinsider.com lakingsinsider.com
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Fiala plays a high risk/high reward style of game. People will always focus on the negatives and not what he delivers. The same thing was done with Durzi and he's excelling in Arizona. Pretty much every trade Blake made over the past 12 months sucked.
 
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AngelEyes said:
I try to watch as many Jets' games and highlights as possible, mainly to compare the trade. As much as I'd like to give PLD more time to show he belongs, it's pretty easy to see that Vilardi, Iafallo, and to a lesser extent, Kupari, are contributing more to a team's winning ways. I'm not yet ready to roast Blake's judgement, but part of his name is being replaced by a question
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If Kempe’s injury becomes long term, the true folly of this trade will be exposed, as Blake sacrificed team depth on a flyer that PLD would somehow become the player management was hoping to get, rather than the player he was showing himself to be with his previous teams. If they make it into the post season, they’ll need to have a full roster for any sort of serious run. Otherwise they’ll be an easy bet for a first-round exit (again). A best case scenario for the long term may be that they miss the playoffs entirely, thereby sealing Blake’s fate (I hope) and new management can take the helm and salvage something with what Blake has left behind
 
xcheck said:
On the other hand

View attachment 8680
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1709221331104.png

Like I did today... you no longer worry about PLD, the bomb, the stock market, if Paul is dead, whether Kempe is LTIR, whether Putin's aggression will usher a new era of communist socialism and the global economic impact to oil prices in South America being a sufficient collateralization of reinsurance portfolios and the possible instability it could have on premiums and whether insurance commissioners will allow for sufficient price fluctuation to normalize balance sheets...
 
santiclaws said:
Have to be careful with the "eye test" when talking about PLD. He has a weird, upright skating style and long strides, so even when he's skating hard it doesn't look like it. Not to say that he has been good, but with him you have to pay a lot more attention to what he is doing than "how."
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I'm not referring to his technique, I'm referring to actual timing and intensity of play. PLD Is almost always late to the play and soft on a stick, so he's very ineffective defensively.
 
MiketheKing said:
I'm not referring to his technique, I'm referring to actual timing and intensity of play. PLD Is almost always late to the play and soft on a stick, so he's very ineffective defensively.
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And he gets beat on the boards, repeatedly. The eye test says 'soft'. I'm not saying he isn't gifted with hockey skills, but he plays like he's on an ice rink at the mall on a Sunday morning. Intensity and PLD are never used in the same sentence.
 
Pevsfreedom said:
Also:

Kevin Fiala “playing as well as I’ve seen him”, in the eyes of teammates and coaches"​


lakingsinsider.com

Kevin Fiala "playing as well as I've seen him", in the eyes of teammates and coaches - LA Kings Insider

Coming out of the All-Star break, Kevin Fiala was doing a lot of the right things. He just wasn’t getting rewarded for them offensively. Fiala did not score in the first game out of the break, the 4-0 victory over Edmonton, and he didn’t score in any of the four games on the team’s final […]
lakingsinsider.com lakingsinsider.com
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Just because he is playing better in the eyes of some people (in a fluff article written by a team employee) doesn't mean he is a team player focused on the greater good.
There is a world of difference between Fiala and a guy like Justin Williams.

Lombardi focused on brining in the right players. Blake is only looking at the positions they play +/- is a very telling stat

Look at the 2012 and 2014 teams

2012- look at who the - players were
1709240829072.png



2014
1709240872641.png
 
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kingsjohn said:
Just because he is playing better in the eyes of some people (in a fluff article written by a team employee) doesn't mean he is a team player focused on the greater good.
There is a world of difference between Fiala and a guy like Justin Williams.

Lombardi focused on brining in the right players. Blake is only looking at the positions they play +/- is a very telling stat
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To be fair, there are a million ways to look at who and what constitutes as "a team player focused on the greater good". Is a player who signs an outrageous contract at top dollar and therein crippling the team under the terms of salary cap one (ala Doughty)? Is a player who signs above market value with their home team for the final years of their career (ala Kopitar)? I'd say Kopitar fits into the category of such a player when we look at the full picture, despite failing to take a home team discount anytime throughout his tenure with the Kings.

Heck we haven't had a player who signed at a home team discount since Dustin Brown, though Mikey Anderson did take a home team discount on his previous short term contract.

I agree with you in that the last time we had a core of players truly focused on the greater good was back in ~2012 - 2014. Lombardi was great at bringing in character guys and not overpaying come contract time. He had a vision that he consistently shared with the players and got their buy in upfront, and continually monitored for it going forward. Blake appears to be focused more on talent which is great, but it has tipped the scale when it comes to players with leadership/team focus and selfish players (which some of our vet leaders may fall into). But, it is a different era.

In the era of no trade contracts, and the majority players acting as mercenaries seeking the money first and foremost I don't really think any team has a majority of players who care about the team above themselves. Likely the best we can ask for is for players to give it their all, continue to work to improve and hold themselves accountable to perform up to the level of their contract (and hopefully beyond).

As to +/-, I love that stat but we all know it is extremely flawed as a standalone indicator. Gavrikov, for instance, is a -2 on the year, which, by your logic, would indicate he is a low quality defensemen (as +/- is even more important for defensemen than it is for forwards). Given that analytics have evolved so greatly in the past several years, it would be foolish to place too much importance on one stat alone. For instance, how often does the payer start a shift in the defensive zone, what is the quality of their teammates, how sucessful is their team (hard to have a great +/- on a team that is consistently getting wiped by their opponents / bottom of the league in wins despite a single individuals effort), are they contributing in another way such as being a PP specialist ala Ryan Smyth...

With all the analytics out there, though, we still can't confidently say who is a true team first player, and who is selfish.

All we can do is make flawed educated guesses.
 
DryKing said:
To be fair, there are a million ways to look at who and what constitutes as "a team player focused on the greater good". Is a player who signs an outrageous contract at top dollar and therein crippling the team under the terms of salary cap one (ala Doughty)? Is a player who signs above market value with their home team for the final years of their career (ala Kopitar)? I'd say Kopitar fits into the category of such a player when we look at the full picture, despite failing to take a home team discount anytime throughout his tenure with the Kings.

Heck we haven't had a player who signed at a home team discount since Dustin Brown, though Mikey Anderson did take a home team discount on his previous short term contract.

I agree with you in that the last time we had a core of players truly focused on the greater good was back in ~2012 - 2014. Lombardi was great at bringing in character guys and not overpaying come contract time. He had a vision that he consistently shared with the players and got their buy in upfront, and continually monitored for it going forward. Blake appears to be focused more on talent which is great, but it has tipped the scale when it comes to players with leadership/team focus and selfish players (which some of our vet leaders may fall into). But, it is a different era.

In the era of no trade contracts, and the majority players acting as mercenaries seeking the money first and foremost I don't really think any team has a majority of players who care about the team above themselves. Likely the best we can ask for is for players to give it their all, continue to work to improve and hold themselves accountable to perform up to the level of their contract (and hopefully beyond).

As to +/-, I love that stat but we all know it is extremely flawed as a standalone indicator. Gavrikov, for instance, is a -2 on the year, which, by your logic, would indicate he is a low quality defensemen (as +/- is even more important for defensemen than it is for forwards). Given that analytics have evolved so greatly in the past several years, it would be foolish to place too much importance on one stat alone. For instance, how often does the payer start a shift in the defensive zone, what is the quality of their teammates, how sucessful is their team (hard to have a great +/- on a team that is consistently getting wiped by their opponents / bottom of the league in wins despite a single individuals effort), are they contributing in another way such as being a PP specialist ala Ryan Smyth...

With all the analytics out there, though, we still can't confidently say who is a true team first player, and who is selfish.

All we can do is make flawed educated guesses.
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well said
 
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