PLD for Kuemper

[05/29/93]

I don’t find fault with Kopi in any leadership regard. You’ve got to be who you are, got to be true to yourself. Kopi is the quintessential quiet leader we have heard about. He’s a pro, shows up and goes about his job, is good with the media.
But, you do need the guys who will be more than that, the Richards, Williams, Stoll, Greene & Quick types who have that personality.
Kopi is just not that way. That’s why these signings occurred.

And by all means, don't forget Dustin Brown.

 

[DoubleMinor]

And by all means, don't forget Dustin Brown.

Of course! Highly unlikely those Cups would be in LA without him in that role.
I don’t think I understood how significant he was as Captain and leader. He sure never drew attention to it outside the locker room and none of us are close enough to know.
A couple years ago I watched show on CBS Sports about the 2014 Cup run. Very obvious how strong a leader he was.

I said earlier that I don’t necessarily fault Kopi for his style. But I certainly believe there is a serious leadership void with that team. And I also think Blake addressed that with these incoming players. Yeah, there’s some criticism of it from on-ice perspective but that locker room was a primary focus, and needed to be.

 

[symbology]

Of course! Highly unlikely those Cups would be in LA without him in that role.
I don’t think I understood how significant he was as Captain and leader. He sure never drew attention to it outside the locker room and none of us are close enough to know.
A couple years ago I watched show on CBS Sports about the 2014 Cup run. Very obvious how strong a leader he was.

I said earlier that I don’t necessarily fault Kopi for his style. But I certainly believe there is a serious leadership void with that team. And I also think Blake addressed that with these incoming players. Yeah, there’s some criticism of it from on-ice perspective but that locker room was a primary focus, and needed to be.

It is the makeup of the person. I see it in my work. There are those that are willing to step up and drive if need be, and those that are happy to just be a passenger. The passengers can be great at what they do, but they don't really "drive" when it is needed. I am sure you folks have seen the same thing in your lives.

 

[kingnut]

It is the makeup of the person. I see it in my work. There are those that are willing to step up and drive if need be, and those that are happy to just be a passenger. The passengers can be great at what they do, but they don't really "drive" when it is needed. I am sure you folks have seen the same thing in your lives.

^^^^^

 

[DoubleMinor]

It is the makeup of the person. I see it in my work. There are those that are willing to step up and drive if need be, and those that are happy to just be a passenger. The passengers can be great at what they do, but they don't really "drive" when it is needed. I am sure you folks have seen the same thing in your lives.

Very true.
For me it comes down to whether the endeavor is meaningful. You can show up and be there. Or you have a passion for it, want to excel, and invest enough that the outcomes matter.
Last year the Kings just showed up.

 

[Clif]

I think you are spot on with both points here. PLD was probably a great guy in the locker room but we all saw him losing puck battles that he should have won. With his size, he should have been pushing people around. But he didn't.

Edmundson is going to be an upgrade over Englund. I still can't get over letting Roy walk at 5.8 million and then signing Edmundson at 3.8 million. There should more than 2 million dollars difference between the 2 guys. The signing just feels like another Blake+Bergevin folly where they grossly overpay for a player that they covet. I was listening to NHL radio yesterday or Sunday and they commented that every free agent signing (even Guentzel) was for a reasonable amount. Nobody over paid. And then they followed it up with "well, except for maybe Blake on Edmundson". Dang. That contract would look a lot better at something like 2.25 million per season.

Blake appears to overpay to get his guy, as he’s done several times now. Or at least since Galaxy Brain Luc brought in Bergevin. I don’t know if I’m madder at him or at Blake for listening to him.

Edmundson is a double whammy in that’s it too much money and too much term.

Still, what everyone who comments on this in the media at large misses is what Edmundson is brought in to do. It’s all tunnel vision on the contact which is low hanging fruit. I also believe that Spence is poised for a really good year. He had to babysit Englund to a degree. With Clarke, the need won’t be to babysit Edmundson since he plays more of a rover game. He just needs the get the puck and carry it and set up the forwards. It’ll blow up in his face sometimes but it’s all education

 

[DarkLeftHand]

Blake appears to overpay to get his guy, as he’s done several times now. Or at least since Galaxy Brain Luc brought in Bergevin. I don’t know if I’m madder at him or at Blake for listening to him.

Edmundson is a double whammy in that’s it too much money and too much term.

Still, what everyone who comments on this in the media at large misses is what Edmundson is brought in to do. It’s all tunnel vision on the contact which is low hanging fruit. I also believe that Spence is poised for a really good year. He had to babysit Englund to a degree. With Clarke, the need won’t be to babysit Edmundson since he plays more of a rover game. He just needs the get the puck and carry it and set up the forwards. It’ll blow up in his face sometimes but it’s all education

I assume with Edmundson being brought in, the narrative will be ‘touch Spence or Clarke, die a cross check to the throat death’. At his pay rate, anything less, in terms of performance on ice, should not be tolerated.

 

[Clif]

I assume with Edmundson being brought in, the narrative will be ‘touch Spence or Clarke, die a cross check to the throat death’. At his pay rate, anything less, in terms of performance on ice, should not be tolerated.

I think that’s a fair standard for him. The SDPN guys, even while in disbelief over the contract, never shied away from him being a “carbon into your spinal cord” specialist.

 

[DryKing]

I think that’s a fair standard for him. The SDPN guys, even while in disbelief over the contract, never shied away from him being a “carbon into your spinal cord” specialist.

Wonder if it signifies that the Kings will finally start the youth movement over the next few seasons. Shame we don't have a whole lot of quality prospects in the system coming up, though, outside of those ready to step forward this year.

 

[Clif]

Wonder if it signifies that the Kings will finally start the youth movement over the next few seasons. Shame we don't have a whole lot of quality prospects in the system coming up, though, outside of those ready to step forward this year.

I think a lot of younger players will be coming up, but I also am more bullish on their quality. The question for me is if any of the young forwards will be legit top 6 players. We need one now, and if Laf is going to be in the Iafallo role for Kopi that may work, but still doesn’t make him a top 6 talent.

Longer term I see Ziemmer and Greentree as the best potential to naturally fit a top 6 role. Outside chance to Pinelli, though he feels like a Fagemo. If he’s not good enough for a top 6 role he won’t be good enough to make the league full time.

Regardless, our bottom 6 is flush with exciting options. Turcotte, Thomas, Lee, Helenius, Conmy, and I think Laf. If any make a jump up in the lineup the. Kings are in good shape.

As for D, we’re set for years on the right side. Let’s see what happens with Dvorak and if Kirsanov ever makes it over.

 

[DryKing]

I think a lot of younger players will be coming up, but I also am more bullish on their quality. The question for me is if any of the young forwards will be legit top 6 players. We need one now, and if Laf is going to be in the Iafallo role for Kopi that may work, but still doesn’t make him a top 6 talent.

Longer term I see Ziemmer and Greentree as the best potential to naturally fit a top 6 role. Outside chance to Pinelli, though he feels like a Fagemo. If he’s not good enough for a top 6 role he won’t be good enough to make the league full time.

Regardless, our bottom 6 is flush with exciting options. Turcotte, Thomas, Lee, Helenius, Conmy, and I think Laf. If any make a jump up in the lineup the. Kings are in good shape.

As for D, we’re set for years on the right side. Let’s see what happens with Dvorak and if Kirsanov ever makes it over.

I have hopes for Pinelli, but so far he has been a pretty big disappointment since joining the Reign (my expectations were probably a bit too high coming in). I know he made comments when drafted around the Kings style of play not being one he enjoys playing, so maybe with a more creative/open style he will flourish. To be honest he has come off to me as pretty priveledged.

I have hopes for Greentree and Ziemmer but they seem more probable to end up in bottom 6 roles. Currently I do no see a top 6 forward prospect in our pipeline (though one could surprise) outside of potentially those ready to join the Kings next season (Thomas and Turcotte). Between the two, I think Thomas has a pretty good shot of eventually becoming a top 6 forward - but he's still a longshot.

Also I agree with you on Laf. He should develop into a good bottom 6 forward but outside of a team that wants to balance their top 3 forward lines, he has no real business being in the top 6.

Let's hope the Kings start building their pipeline again. Rob has been pretty successful signing unsigned college players so hopefully he can find some more luck in that realm.

 

[DoubleMinor]

I have hopes for Pinelli, but so far he has been a pretty big disappointment since joining the Reign (my expectations were probably a bit too high coming in). I know he made comments when drafted around the Kings style of play not being one he enjoys playing, so maybe with a more creative/open style he will flourish. To be honest he has come off to me as pretty priveledged.

I have hopes for Greentree and Ziemmer but they seem more probable to end up in bottom 6 roles. Currently I do no see a top 6 forward prospect in our pipeline (though one could surprise) outside of potentially those ready to join the Kings next season (Thomas and Turcotte). Between the two, I think Thomas has a pretty good shot of eventually becoming a top 6 forward - but he's still a longshot.

Also I agree with you on Laf. He should develop into a good bottom 6 forward but outside of a team that wants to balance their top 3 forward lines, he has no real business being in the top 6.

Let's hope the Kings start building their pipeline again. Rob has been pretty successful signing unsigned college players so hopefully he can find some more luck in that realm.

I think we should all be happy to have Laffy. He played the entire season and was consistent throughout. He never had the typical swoon from young pushers who hit the wall.

Agreed he is for now not a top-six player.
Some are looking at the salary cap projection I think the Mayor had that showed Laffy on the top line (but the Mayor himself said these were not lines but simply names for that cap projection).

As you noted where Laffy plays is dependent on whether Hiller wants depth and balance, and Blake has discussed pairs as opposed to lines.

I have zero clue who plays where. I assume Kopi and Kempe are first line but it could be Foegele, Thomas, Turcotte, Laffy with them.

One thing we do know about Hiller is he’s flexible and not hesitant to change.

Final thing is, I’m not entirely convinced that another move isn’t coming. I just don’t know that this is the final roster. Whether it’s a trade for D or more offense, I’m not certain. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see another move.

 

[fonze]

Jusst thibk if bonehead blake didn't make this deal, we would still have Vilardi who will be a consistant 35 goal score, Iaflo and decent player and Kupari, but instead we end up with Keumper who is very inconsistant in goal. Most GM's get fired for making this type of deals but in LA GM gets rewarded.

The only consistent thing about Gabe was his injuries .. love the guy, I cheer for him when I watch the jets and wish him the best .. 35 would be easy on 82 games...

 

[Clif]

I have hopes for Pinelli, but so far he has been a pretty big disappointment since joining the Reign (my expectations were probably a bit too high coming in). I know he made comments when drafted around the Kings style of play not being one he enjoys playing, so maybe with a more creative/open style he will flourish. To be honest he has come off to me as pretty priveledged.

I have hopes for Greentree and Ziemmer but they seem more probable to end up in bottom 6 roles. Currently I do no see a top 6 forward prospect in our pipeline (though one could surprise) outside of potentially those ready to join the Kings next season (Thomas and Turcotte). Between the two, I think Thomas has a pretty good shot of eventually becoming a top 6 forward - but he's still a longshot.

Also I agree with you on Laf. He should develop into a good bottom 6 forward but outside of a team that wants to balance their top 3 forward lines, he has no real business being in the top 6.

Let's hope the Kings start building their pipeline again. Rob has been pretty successful signing unsigned college players so hopefully he can find some more luck in that realm.

Greentree is a skilled shooter and playmaker who put up 90 pts as a 17 year-old. Despite his size he’s not regarded as a true power forward. His place, if he makes it, is in the top 6.

Ziemmer is so physical he can play a bottom 6 role if his scoring isn’t there.

Pinelli reportedly had a good second half of the year. I didn’t read those comments - definitely a disappointment to hear it. If he ever makes it awesome. Just not penciling him in.

For all the players I mentioned I regard the pipeline as good, and possibly really good with Slukynsky and George. It’s not easy drafting legit top 6, top pairing, and starting goalie talent outside the top 10. At least Byfield and Clarke should hit properly as top picks and a special goalie could be a few seasons away. If one or two kids emerge as top 6 wingers all is very good because the bottom 6 looks great.

 

[ICE24]

Laf has played one year in the NHL, straight out of Harvard. This kid is going to be a good player for the Kings or for another team and will be a top 6 forward. He will only get stronger and will have a year under his belt in the Kings system. All the Kings have in the Reign are maybe bottom six players.

 

[Clif]

Laf has played one year in the NHL, straight out of Harvard. This kid is going to be a good player for the Kings or for another team and will be a top 6 forward. He will only get stronger and will have a year under his belt in the Kings system. All the Kings have in the Reign are maybe bottom six players.

True on the Reign as Lee and Helenius are the only current standouts and they are hopefully good 4th line players.

Would love if Laf shows a higher ceiling with an improved shot and better defensive awareness (much better). I love the physicality out of him. That he ranked that high for hits by Kings shows how badly this team needed to get tougher. But in isolation, great hit total for a player his size and role.

 

[DryKing]

True on the Reign as Lee and Helenius are the only current standouts and they are hopefully good 4th line players.

Would love if Laf shows a higher ceiling with an improved shot and better defensive awareness (much better). I love the physicality out of him. That he ranked that high for hits by Kings shows how badly this team needed to get tougher. But in isolation, great hit total for a player his size and role.

Agreed, Laf was awesome for us during his first season with the team and rose far above expectations. His physical play, tenacity and energy really stood out on the team and he seems like a player willing to sacrifice however needed to help the team win. That said, I don't think we should confuse him for a player which he is not. He's never been an elite scorer at "adult" level, but has consistently been a jack of all trades who can contribute regularly in multiple ways. He does have top 6 potentially, and seems very intelligent with a high hockey IQ which could lead to some big things in the NHL with more experience, but currently I would give him ~10% chance of developing into a consistent top 6 forward on a cup contending team.

Kings have a lot of bottom 6 potential players in their pipeline, but I think Laf could be an elite bottom 6 or marginal top 6 in the future. It will be interesting to see if he regresses in his second season when the Kings have higher expectations for him as others who were fast tracked to the NHL have in our system. But I think even if he does, he offers enough variety on contribution that it will be temporary and he won't fall into a Bjornfot/Kaliyev situation.

Kings stuck gold on this one.

 

[Clif]

Agreed, Laf was awesome for us during his first season with the team and rose far above expectations. His physical play, tenacity and energy really stood out on the team and he seems like a player willing to sacrifice however needed to help the team win. That said, I don't think we should confuse him for a player which he is not. He's never been an elite scorer at "adult" level, but has consistently been a jack of all trades who can contribute regularly in multiple ways. He does have top 6 potentially, and seems very intelligent with a high hockey IQ which could lead to some big things in the NHL with more experience, but currently I would give him ~10% chance of developing into a consistent top 6 forward on a cup contending team.

Kings have a lot of bottom 6 potential players in their pipeline, but I think Laf could be an elite bottom 6 or marginal top 6 in the future. It will be interesting to see if he regresses in his second season when the Kings have higher expectations for him as others who were fast tracked to the NHL have in our system. But I think even if he does, he offers enough variety on contribution that it will be temporary and he won't fall into a Bjornfot/Kaliyev situation.

Kings stuck gold on this one.

I’m with you on all this. Calling him an elite bottom 6 is funny because that’s where I see the Kings’ bottom 6 shaping up to be anyway. When I think of Helenius and Lee as 4th liners, I’m thinking seriously effective, big, mean 4th liners who can more than just eat minutes.

With Kopi still on this team, I see Laf as potentially filling a top 6 role simply because he can bring that Iafallo game Kopi loves so much. But as we all know, AI was never really a top 6 player.

 

[DoubleMinor]

Laf has played one year in the NHL, straight out of Harvard. This kid is going to be a good player for the Kings or for another team and will be a top 6 forward. He will only get stronger and will have a year under his belt in the Kings system. All the Kings have in the Reign are maybe bottom six players.

Laf has played one year in the NHL, straight out of Harvard. This kid is going to be a good player for the Kings or for another team and will be a top 6 forward. He will only get stronger and will have a year under his belt in the Kings system. All the Kings have in the Reign are maybe bottom six players.

Exactly right.
When I watched Laffy last season I sometimes caught myself wondering if he might a Deadmarsh type player.

But you wrote the right things. He came straight out of college and played an entire season and did not look overmatched.
I honestly don’t know where the ceiling is but I sure hope it’s a top-six guy.

 

[DRGinLBC]

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