Why don't we make better use of our farm system?

Illegal_Stick

Illegal_Stick

Top Forward
Is it just me or is it like this...

We desperately need a right hand shot for the powerplay, in particular. We've needed it for a while, probably since Vilardi. There's Fagemo, a right-handed goal scorer, with good scoring stats, but we look for trades. I like who we got, nothing wrong with that, but why was there no extended try with Fagemo. Worst case, he comes up, it doesn't work and we maybe lose him on waivers - which is fine since he will have showed he can't do what we need him to. Chromiak another right handed shot, those less offensively gifted.

Now Rittich is struggling, we have Copley sitting there, a pro who can be a backup, but instead we were allegedly exploring trades for a backup. What's the risk? Losing Rittich on waivers - okay but he's not playing well so no big deal.

I don't think anyone I've mentioned is going to light the world on fire in the NHL. It's possible none even play in the league again, I just thought this was the point of having a farm system.
 
Illegal_Stick said:
Is it just me or is it like this...

We desperately need a right hand shot for the powerplay, in particular. We've needed it for a while, probably since Vilardi. There's Fagemo, a right-handed goal scorer, with good scoring stats, but we look for trades. I like who we got, nothing wrong with that, but why was there no extended try with Fagemo. Worst case, he comes up, it doesn't work and we maybe lose him on waivers - which is fine since he will have showed he can't do what we need him to. Chromiak another right handed shot, those less offensively gifted.

Now Rittich is struggling, we have Copley sitting there, a pro who can be a backup, but instead we were allegedly exploring trades for a backup. What's the risk? Losing Rittich on waivers - okay but he's not playing well so no big deal.

I don't think anyone I've mentioned is going to light the world on fire in the NHL. It's possible none even play in the league again, I just thought this was the point of having a farm system.
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I like the idea of Copley since he has proven to be a good NHL backup and then starter as we saw two seasons ago. Fagemo has been given opportunities in the NHL and has not taken advantage of them. Remember he played with the Kings for a few and then I believe a few games for Nashville until they waived him. Good AHL player, not a good NHL player. It happens.
 
ICE24 said:
I like the idea of Copley since he has proven to be a good NHL backup and then starter as we saw two seasons ago. Fagemo has been given opportunities in the NHL and has not taken advantage of them. Remember he played with the Kings for a few and then I believe a few games for Nashville until they waived him. Good AHL player, not a good NHL player. It happens.
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Yeah, perhaps the real question is - why don't we have a better farm team, rather than why aren't we using it. I remember that with Fagemo, just would've liked to have seen him get a chance under Hiller.
 
Portillo is out for another week or two, and is projected to be the backup next year.

Copley isn't the same player since his injury, but will be the 3rd goalie for the playoffs.

Fagemo is not an NHL player. His offense doesn't translate and his work away from the puck isn't strong enough for a bottom six role.

And to address the title, Kings management has largely used the farm system to support an elderly roster instead of allowing them to supplant veteran players. Its not unlike the route Vegas has followed, except with crap results because the Kings vets are no longer top players.
 
Sultanic said:
Portillo is out for another week or two, and is projected to be the backup next year.

Copley isn't the same player since his injury, but will be the 3rd goalie for the playoffs.

Fagemo is not an NHL player. His offense doesn't translate and his work away from the puck isn't strong enough for a bottom six role.

And to address the title, Kings management has largely used the farm system to support an elderly roster instead of allowing them to supplant veteran players. Its not unlike the route Vegas has followed, except with crap results because the Kings vets are no longer top players.
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Fagemo is like Kaliyev. Both will never be significant NHLers. I do think Fagemo might do better with a more offense minded system. If he could help the Kings, he would be on the NHL roster.
 
LAKingSteve said:
Fagemo is like Kaliyev. Both will never be significant NHLers. I do think Fagemo might do better with a more offense minded system. If he could help the Kings, he would be on the NHL roster.
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Fagemo would prolly score 40 with Vegas on the power play….

I kid, I kid. Although I have a sneaking suspicion they would figure out how to use his shot, and their offensively gifted players would be able to get him the puck for wide open shots on net. Same with Dallas, Edmonton, etc.
 
these guys all got chances. Some of them multiple times. There isn't room on the team for 1-dimensional players. Being right handed doesn't qualify a player for a spot on the King's no matter how bad it is. Fagemo, Chromiak, Frk... there's a BIG difference between getting your shot off and on target at the AHL vs the NHL level. Frk was a more obvious example, but the same applies to all three of these guys... and to Kaliyev to some extent. At the AHL level, you have the extra split second to settle the puck and get your shot off. You can score on lesser skilled goalies. Having the hardest slap shot in the league doesn't mean sh*t if you need the extra time to get it off. At the NHL level, guys get sticks in lanes faster. Goalies get across quicker. They're more set. And if you're only real skill is shooting, and you get run over at every other aspect of teh game, you're a liability that teams cannot afford.

Additionally, you need some reasonably skilled players on your farm team so that the young guys you bring in to develop can have some modicum of success. There is still value in having guys that cant cut it in the NHL, but are good at the AHL level because without skill and success, your ability to develop players on your farm team is going to suffer.

And finally, you need depth. Teams suffer injuries all the time over the course of an NHL season and/or playoffs. You lose everyone to waivers and you're setting yourself up for failure.
 
Significant injuries to top prospects (Thomas, Vilardi, & also Turcotte, I think, maybe others I've forgotten) that kept them from being able to shine in their early seasons really blew up the pipeline around the 2018ish time when we were still trying to ride the glory of the Cup years. Also, hanging on to hope with guys like Anderson-Dolan & even one of my faves, Kupari, kept us from being aggressive with getting picks as well.

We also hung our hat on Daniel Brickley for an entire first half of a season (he's playing in Finland now)

And, let's not forget that Nick Shore took up a roster spot for several years.....I will NEVER understand that. Seemed like a great guy, but....not a great NHLer.

I know I'm forgetting some other missteps along the way.....
 
Nyssa42 said:
Significant injuries to top prospects (Thomas, Vilardi, & also Turcotte, I think, maybe others I've forgotten) that kept them from being able to shine in their early seasons really blew up the pipeline around the 2018ish time when we were still trying to ride the glory of the Cup years. Also, hanging on to hope with guys like Anderson-Dolan & even one of my faves, Kupari, kept us from being aggressive with getting picks as well.

We also hung our hat on Daniel Brickley for an entire first half of a season (he's playing in Finland now)

And, let's not forget that Nick Shore took up a roster spot for several years.....I will NEVER understand that. Seemed like a great guy, but....not a great NHLer.

I know I'm forgetting some other missteps along the way.....
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Wow. Now that's a name I have not seen in a long time, brickley!
 
LAKingSteve said:
Obvious? Kings have 3 future goalies in the system. Carter George, Hampton Slukynsky and Portillo. All are very highly touted and will be NHL players. Portillo will be on the Kings roster next season.
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The question was why aren't we using the farm system? Right now we don't have any goalies ready to step in. Maybe next year? The last time we had goalies from our system that worked out where Quick and Bernier.
 
Helvetica said:
these guys all got chances. Some of them multiple times. There isn't room on the team for 1-dimensional players. Being right handed doesn't qualify a player for a spot on the King's no matter how bad it is. Fagemo, Chromiak, Frk... there's a BIG difference between getting your shot off and on target at the AHL vs the NHL level. Frk was a more obvious example, but the same applies to all three of these guys... and to Kaliyev to some extent. At the AHL level, you have the extra split second to settle the puck and get your shot off. You can score on lesser skilled goalies. Having the hardest slap shot in the league doesn't mean sh*t if you need the extra time to get it off. At the NHL level, guys get sticks in lanes faster. Goalies get across quicker. They're more set. And if you're only real skill is shooting, and you get run over at every other aspect of teh game, you're a liability that teams cannot afford.

Additionally, you need some reasonably skilled players on your farm team so that the young guys you bring in to develop can have some modicum of success. There is still value in having guys that cant cut it in the NHL, but are good at the AHL level because without skill and success, your ability to develop players on your farm team is going to suffer.

And finally, you need depth. Teams suffer injuries all the time over the course of an NHL season and/or playoffs. You lose everyone to waivers and you're setting yourself up for failure.
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All fair points, I guess I just think of someone like Vilardi who Todd kept sending back at first because he didn't play the right way. I guess though the difference with someone like that was even though he wasn't doing what they wanted, he was showing signs that he could play/score at the NHL level?

They know Fagemo better than I do, I just figured since they took him back from Nashville they still had hope, but you're right that there are those AHL skill guys that are just that and nothing more.
 
It’s kind of incredible how the Kings have consistently whiffed on 2nd round picks. Since 2010 (Tyler Toffoli) the Kings have had 15 2nd round picks (not counting ‘23, ‘24). 1 was a homerun Brock Faber (2020), 2 are currently on the team (Thomas, Helenius) but every other pick is either out of the league or a very long shot to ever make an impact in the NHL.

I think a better strategy going forward would be to trade out of the 2nd round for NHL players or to get back into the 1st round.
 
Making the next step up is a hard thing in this sport.
I've seen kids who have absolutely killed at the u18 level and fizzled out in major Junior. Kids who've killed it in major Junior and fizzle out in the AHL. AHL, to NHL ...
Guys like Bedard, McDavid, Crosby, MacKinnon, Price, etc, etc, etc ... players that are a can't miss prospect are few and far between.
Then you get a guy like Makar. Who didn't get drafted in major junior. Played Junior A, then went major Junior and well, we know the rest ... so, you (scouts) do your homework. Watch the games. Do the interviews. and hope for the best come draft day.
But what teams cannot do is stop developing their drafted talent once they make the AHL/NHL club. Players need a purpose on the team and developing that purpose they can make that next step up to the big club (or if they're already there - extra minutes, top line, PP, PK, etc).
 
Statue4Deano said:
It’s kind of incredible how the Kings have consistently whiffed on 2nd round picks. Since 2010 (Tyler Toffoli) the Kings have had 15 2nd round picks (not counting ‘23, ‘24). 1 was a homerun Brock Faber (2020), 2 are currently on the team (Thomas, Helenius) but every other pick is either out of the league or a very long shot to ever make an impact in the NHL.

I think a better strategy going forward would be to trade out of the 2nd round for NHL players or to get back into the 1st round.
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Let's be honest, though, Kings have wiffed on picks in general then every few years do really well. The strategy should likely be to retain more picks rather than trade them, pre-draft.

Let's look back at the last 10 years at our decent picks:

2015 - 2nd - Cernak, 7th - Roy
2016 - Wiff (Traded our 1st and 3rd)
2017- 1st - Vilardi, 4th Anderson
2018 - Wiff
2019 - 1st - Turcotte, 4th - Spence (had 2 1st, 2nd and 4ths)
*2020 - 1st - Byfield, 2nd - Faber, 3rd - Laferriere (Great draft)
2021 - 1st - Clarke, possible 2nd - Helenius (2 2nds, traded 4th-7th)
2022 - traded 1st and 3rd (2 4th and 6th)
2023 - traded 1st and 7th
2024 - traded 3rd - 5th - 1st Greentree looking good but TBD

This is essentially how you destroy your farm team. Wiff on two complete drafts (2016 & 2018) and trade away multiple top picks.
 
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