LA Kings All Things PLD

[DryKing]

I blame Blake for going against the advice of his scouts and picking Turcotte, because it's advice from a buddy of his.

I'm with you and agree on most of what you said minus this. How can you blame Blake for taking what was the consensus best player available? Blake cannot forsee injuries and that is what has really derailed Turcotte. If he can stay healthy, he will be a very good player in the NHL. Problem may be, however, that he never gets fully healthy after the number of concussions he has already had.

This was not a DL rogue pick (aka Hickey).

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm with you and agree on most of what you said minus this. How can you blame Blake for taking what was the consensus best player available? Blake cannot forsee injuries and that is what has really derailed Turcotte. If he can stay healthy, he will be a very good player in the NHL. Problem may be, however, that he never gets fully healthy after the number of concussions he has already had.

This was not a DL rogue pick (aka Hickey).

It was reported that the scouts had another player they wanted taken. Blake ignored them in favor of taking Turcotte.

And so, unfortunately, when you ignore your scouts to take someone, you take full responsibility for the results, fair or not. I agree Turcotte would have been an NHLer if not for injuries, but you know? Too bad. Blake ignored the most knowledgeable resource in favor of his buddy.

The concern here is that Blake diverged from his scouts, and according to three sources, chose Turcotte when Director of Amateur Scouting Mark Yannetti had Trevor Zegras, who has 139 points in 180 career games down the road in Anaheim, ranked higher on the draft list. There have also been whispers that Tony Granato, who would coach Turcotte for one year at Wisconsin, strongly advocated for his incoming freshman prior to the draft.

Did the Kings just write off a 104-point season?

None of the three first round centers drafted between 2018 and 2020 are living up to their draft spot, which presents an alarming future for a cap-strapped team whose top two centers will be 36 and…

theforumreport.com

 

[Dexter]

 

[Wolvie]

I've outlined my issues with Blake and his direction with the org fairly clearly. But here we go again.

He didn't want to rebuild because they wanted to keep competing with the previous core. So he keeps sending off futures to amass a total of 5 playoff games won in his 6 years. In the same time, Lombardi had 20 wins.

He's trying to "win now" while utilizing a slow-boil approach to their youth. The two agendas don't work, and his 'win now' has resulted in two first round exits.

In the same time, other teams have been further along in the playoffs with their youth in bigger roles, like Seattle with Beniers, Florida with Lundell, or Carolina with Jarvis. Teams lower in the standings like Anaheim has their 2019 first round pick already in the top-6, while the Kings' 2017 first round pick was still on third line duty. Ottawa's 2020 first round pick had more points last season than almost triple the Kings' 2020 second overall pick.

I blame Blake for going against the advice of his scouts and picking Turcotte, because it's advice from a buddy of his.

Blake's best moves of acquiring depth on the cheap was undone when he traded three regular players for a single marginal upgrade over the pieces he traded away, who has a career high of 63 points. Vilardi actually has a better points/60 scoring rate while having less favorable offensive zone deployments.

So he wants to win now, without actually winning anything in the playoffs. He has a developmental system that doesn't align with the timelines of competing now. He went multiple seasons short on LD and paid through the nose to acquire and retain one. He paid through the nose to rid himself of the Petersen contract, instead of trying to recoup picks that the team needs to replenish - picks they could have tried to leverage to move up in the draft to get other guys they wanted.

What's so great about getting a good record in the regular season, which was still only good enough for third in the division, when the team can't get past the first round?

So, to answer your question - I blame Blake for putting the Kings in a position worse than the black hole. Good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to make a dent in them.

I fondly recall standing along the glass with jt and CBGB holding BUCK FLAKE signs while he warmed up for the Avs.

I’m not quite there yet (again), but the unforced errors are certainly piling up. I’m not as sure that PLD is one of them, but Blake is betting big on all of the under-26 players having breakouts and all of the over-33 players avoiding regression.

Tangentially, the biggest problem with the lengthy development of a Byfield or Turcotte is that if they finally put it all together they will have finished their ELC’s meaning that we won’t see the cap-benefit of having a young player outplaying his contract. Turcotte might have been harder to foresee, but if they’re preaching patience on Byfield then they are admitting that he wasn’t a reliable succession plan at center let alone right for their competitive timeline with the aging core. The PLD trade confirms it.

 

[AngelEyes]

I've outlined my issues with Blake and his direction with the org fairly clearly. But here we go again.

He didn't want to rebuild because they wanted to keep competing with the previous core. So he keeps sending off futures to amass a total of 5 playoff games won in his 6 years. In the same time, Lombardi had 20 wins.

He's trying to "win now" while utilizing a slow-boil approach to their youth. The two agendas don't work, and his 'win now' has resulted in two first round exits.

In the same time, other teams have been further along in the playoffs with their youth in bigger roles, like Seattle with Beniers, Florida with Lundell, or Carolina with Jarvis. Teams lower in the standings like Anaheim has their 2019 first round pick already in the top-6, while the Kings' 2017 first round pick was still on third line duty. Ottawa's 2020 first round pick had more points last season than almost triple the Kings' 2020 second overall pick.

I blame Blake for going against the advice of his scouts and picking Turcotte, because it's advice from a buddy of his.

Blake's best moves of acquiring depth on the cheap was undone when he traded three regular players for a single marginal upgrade over the pieces he traded away, who has a career high of 63 points. Vilardi actually has a better points/60 scoring rate while having less favorable offensive zone deployments.

So he wants to win now, without actually winning anything in the playoffs. He has a developmental system that doesn't align with the timelines of competing now. He went multiple seasons short on LD and paid through the nose to acquire and retain one. He paid through the nose to rid himself of the Petersen contract, instead of trying to recoup picks that the team needs to replenish - picks they could have tried to leverage to move up in the draft to get other guys they wanted.

What's so great about getting a good record in the regular season, which was still only good enough for third in the division, when the team can't get past the first round?

So, to answer your question - I blame Blake for putting the Kings in a position worse than the black hole. Good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to make a dent in them.

Can you be sure that Blake hasn't been at least partially under orders from his employers to get to the playoffs and the gate / parking / refreshment / souvenir receipts that they generate?

 

[fonze]

the more interviews i watch the more excited i am for PLD

 

[Statue4Deano]

It was reported that the scouts had another player they wanted taken. Blake ignored them in favor of taking Turcotte.

And so, unfortunately, when you ignore your scouts to take someone, you take full responsibility for the results, fair or not. I agree Turcotte would have been an NHLer if not for injuries, but you know? Too bad. Blake ignored the most knowledgeable resource in favor of his buddy.

Did the Kings just write off a 104-point season?

None of the three first round centers drafted between 2018 and 2020 are living up to their draft spot, which presents an alarming future for a cap-strapped team whose top two centers will be 36 and…

theforumreport.com

Here’s what Mark Yannetti had to say about the Turcotte pick:

“There were two places in this draft where guys were in dead heats. Two places,” Director of Amateur Scouting Mark Yannetti said. “Five and 22. Dead heats.”

“This one, we were really, really deadlocked between two players and almost split evenly down party lines,”

“So, again, the draft’s kind of a fluid thing, and we always talk about the best player available, and I know I’ve lamented in the past when we haven’t done that,” he said. “So, in saying that though, just because a player is 1-2-3-4, the difference between one and two could be paper thin, or it could be castle. So in areas where you have guys that are in virtual dead heats and you’re trying to decide between two guys at five, one guy may check off that captain box, that leadership box, that compete box, and one guy might not – then it becomes easy. “[Rob Blake] has a certain way he wants to build the team, and obviously our culture needs a reboot. So, one of the ways we can affect this [is at] the ground floor up. So, if all things are equal, the player with the culture box gets checked.”

“Again, you don’t just look for culture and overlook talent. We got really fortunate with a kid like Turcotte. He checks every single box. You know five-tool baseball players? He’s one of those four-tool players, and one of those tools is the intangibles and character, so that’s easy.

That doesn’t exactly sound like Blake going rogue to reach on Turcotte while Tony Wormtongue Granato lurks in the shadows but hey I get it Rosen has to get clicks so I can understand the added dramatic flair in his blog post.

 

[Statue4Deano]

I fondly recall standing along the glass with jt and CBGB holding BUCK FLAKE signs while he warmed up for the Avs.

I’m not quite there yet (again), but the unforced errors are certainly piling up. I’m not as sure that PLD is one of them, but Blake is betting big on all of the under-26 players having breakouts and all of the over-33 players avoiding regression.

Tangentially, the biggest problem with the lengthy development of a Byfield or Turcotte is that if they finally put it all together they will have finished their ELC’s meaning that we won’t see the cap-benefit of having a young player outplaying his contract. Turcotte might have been harder to foresee, but if they’re preaching patience on Byfield then they are admitting that he wasn’t a reliable succession plan at center let alone right for their competitive timeline with the aging core. The PLD trade confirms it.

An ELC is 3 NHL years. Drafting on the basis of maximizing that 3 year window seems like a pretty risky endeavor. A team would need to be in a very specific position to have any ELC player push them over the top into a Cup winner. A say Cup winner because Blake has shown the ability to ice a successful regular season team and for some folks that isn’t good enough at this point.

Q: Did the Senators use the cap-benefit of Stutzle’s ELC to gain a competitive advantage? His cap hit is 8.3M next season for the next 7 seasons.

Re: longer development paths - typically that longer path means lesser contract demands after the ELC is done. A player outplaying his cap hit on his bridge deal is potentially just as valuable as outplaying his ELC for the fact that an organization has more time to dig themselves out from the crater that comes with drafting in the top 3.

 

[King'sPawn]

Here’s what Mark Yannetti had to say about the Turcotte pick:



That doesn’t exactly sound like Blake going rogue to reach on Turcotte while Tony Wormtongue Granato lurks in the shadows but hey I get it Rosen has to get clicks so I can understand the added dramatic flair in his blog post.

Yeah, and Yannetti not wanting to throw his boss under the bus isn't something to be taken in consideration.

You've hit a dangerous stage of myopia when you're accusing Rosen of making up sources for clicks.

Can you be sure that Blake hasn't been at least partially under orders from his employers to get to the playoffs and the gate / parking / refreshment / souvenir receipts that they generate?

I can't be sure. But he's already made the playoffs with the roster he had. If the orders were "just make the playoffs," why try to make such dramatic changes to team composition?

I'm sure Luc and Blake being friends with Dubois' agent factored in. I don't think that absolves management at all. It just makes it worse.

 

[Statue4Deano]

You've hit a dangerous stage of myopia when you're accusing Rosen of making up sources for clicks.

But there’s nothing in Rosen’s post that contradicts Yannetti at all.

Here’s Rosen:

The concern here is that Blake diverged from his scouts, and according to three sources, chose Turcotte when Director of Amateur Scouting Mark Yannetti had Trevor Zegras, who has 139 points in 180 career games down the road in Anaheim, ranked higher on the draft list.

Yannetti said it was a split room. Lines drawn by philosophy. The simplest answer is that Yannetti and half the room was on one side Zegras (who wasn’t the consensus #5 pick btw) and the other half with Blake on Turcotte. Hence “Blake diverged from his scouts” was as true a statement when Yannetti said it as when Rosen wrote it.

Where I called Rosen dramatic is the next sentence in his post

There have also been whispers that Tony Granato, who would coach Turcotte for one year at Wisconsin, strongly advocated for his incoming freshman prior to the draft.

He’s now veered off from his multiple sourced claim and landed on “there are whispers” all within one paragraph. This type of reporting based on conjecture can cause all types of confusion with readers who believe the “whispers” are equally as vetted as his fact-based information on the selection of Turcotte over Zegras. Rosen makes no reference to who is doing the whispering or how many whisperers there are. Which is a stark contrast from where the paragraph started.

My forgiving interpretation of that paragraph is that Rosen is just adding some dramatic flair to a very common occurrence in every draft room in the NHL. Every scouting department has disagreements. At the end of the day someone has to make the decision. Whether that’s Dean Lombardi picking Colten Teubert or Rob Blake picking Alex Turcotte, the buck stops there.

 

[King'sPawn]

Yannetti said it was a split room. Lines drawn by philosophy. The simplest answer is that Yannetti and half the room was on one side Zegras (who wasn’t the consensus #5 pick btw) and the other half with Blake on Turcotte. Hence “Blake diverged from his scouts” was as true a statement when Yannetti said it as when Rosen wrote it.

Where I called Rosen dramatic is the next sentence in his post



He’s now veered off from his multiple sourced claim and landed on “there are whispers” all within one paragraph. This type of reporting based on conjecture can cause all types of confusion with readers who believe the “whispers” are equally as vetted as his fact-based information on the selection of Turcotte over Zegras. Rosen makes no reference to who is doing the whispering or how many whisperers there are. Which is a stark contrast from where the paragraph started.

My forgiving interpretation of that paragraph is that Rosen is just adding some dramatic flair to a very common occurrence in every draft room in the NHL. Every scouting department has disagreements. At the end of the day someone has to make the decision. Whether that’s Dean Lombardi picking Colten Teubert or Rob Blake picking Alex Turcotte, the buck stops there.

You're assuming it was a 50/50 split. It could be 50/50. It could be 60/40. It could be 40/60. Heck, it could be 95/5. Those are all splits. And would you really expect Yannetti to say "well, most of us liked another player, but Blake's the boss!"

But what was specifically said by Rosen is the director of Amateur Scouting, who based on the aggregate of information and experience, liked another player. And it was ignored.

As for the whisperings phrasing, we don't know the sources - maybe he had to mask that it was from one of his sources, or something his sources heard. But, considering the amount of nepotism in the org, are you really doubting that Blake got some confirmation bias from a buddy and former teammate of his and Luc's? You think Rosen, who worked as an insider for years and was still one at the 2019 draft, didn't hear something? You think it was just a dramatic flair?

And yes, I'm sure there are plenty of disagreements with every scouting department. But he still gets credit for successes and blames for failures when you veer from your team. So far, with Turcotte yet to even register a point in the NHL, he can't reap the rewards of a success.

 

[Kurisu]

Kinda hard to fault Blake for a shoulder injury, appendicitis and multiple concussions.

Kings Draft History: Alex Turcotte, a Bad Pick or Bad Luck?

In 2019 the Los Angeles Kings kickstarted a tear-it-down rebuild which saw them finish 30th in the league. They had the best odds to draft second overall, a pick that would have turned into Kaapo Kakko, but fell in the draft lottery to number five. At five they selected USNTDP center Alex...

lahockeynow.com

 

[King'sPawn]

Kinda hard to fault Blake for a shoulder injury, appendicitis and multiple concussions.

Kings Draft History: Alex Turcotte, a Bad Pick or Bad Luck?

In 2019 the Los Angeles Kings kickstarted a tear-it-down rebuild which saw them finish 30th in the league. They had the best odds to draft second overall, a pick that would have turned into Kaapo Kakko, but fell in the draft lottery to number five. At five they selected USNTDP center Alex...

lahockeynow.com

If Turcotte went on to be a star and Zegras had all these issues, plenty would be lauding Blake for the success and reveling in the Ducks' plight of their player not being able to make it to the NHL. Fair or not, he made the results of that decision on him.

 

[Bollocks]

Can you be sure that Blake hasn't been at least partially under orders from his employers to get to the playoffs and the gate / parking / refreshment / souvenir receipts that they generate?

Didn't you get the memo? A GM that's good enough for the precious LA Kings is the one who will agree with the employer at job interview, and then go 180° against them.

Too bad the Kings will never employ a GM like that. But it is the GM's fault in the end.

You're assuming it was a 50/50 split. It could be 50/50. It could be 60/40. It could be 40/60. Heck, it could be 95/5. Those are all splits. And would you really expect Yannetti to say "well, most of us liked another player, but Blake's the boss!"

But what was specifically said by Rosen is the director of Amateur Scouting, who based on the aggregate of information and experience, liked another player. And it was ignored.

As for the whisperings phrasing, we don't know the sources - maybe he had to mask that it was from one of his sources, or something his sources heard. But, considering the amount of nepotism in the org, are you really doubting that Blake got some confirmation bias from a buddy and former teammate of his and Luc's? You think Rosen, who worked as an insider for years and was still one at the 2019 draft, didn't hear something? You think it was just a dramatic flair?

And yes, I'm sure there are plenty of disagreements with every scouting department. But he still gets credit for successes and blames for failures when you veer from your team. So far, with Turcotte yet to even register a point in the NHL, he can't reap the rewards of a success.

If you're buying this speculation, then you should buy speculations about Vilardi's injuries:

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Sounds like a nagging back to me. Rob sold high.

If Turcotte went on to be a star and Zegras had all these issues, plenty would be lauding Blake for the success and reveling in the Ducks' plight of their player not being able to make it to the NHL. Fair or not, he made the results of that decision on him.

I don't think it would be like this. No rational human being likes seeing a player's career getting derailed by injuries, let alone concussions. Even the universally hated Sid wasn't often target of fans reveling in his issues. I mean, sure, those 5 percent of heartless idi*** and some sub-14 year olds - yeah. But are you considering those as legitimate fans of this sport? I highly doubt it.

What was a risky move was drafting Gabe who already had injury concerns, and then managing to develop him despite his injury issues. What about that? Oh, yeah...that's a given, despite the fact that Rob is a fake who wants to risk everything to win now and the Kings development team sucks and Rob doesn't want to fix it.

Turcotte was the correct pick. He had Mike Richards written all over him and we all liked the pick then. The fact that Rob went against 30/40/50/60/70% of the scouting team is completely irrelevant. Had he have a crystal ball, then sure - it would be foolish to pick Turcotte.

 

[King'sPawn]

What was a risky move was drafting Gabe who already had injury concerns, and then managing to develop him despite his injury issues. What about that? Oh, yeah...that's a given, despite the fact that Rob is a fake who wants to risk everything to win now and the Kings development team sucks and Rob doesn't want to fix it.

If you're going to make up arguments, we're not going to have conversations. I didn't say the development team sucks. I said slow boiling doesn't work when you retool.

If you're going to lie, you're going to be ignored. Vilardi played 111 out of 124 games in junior before he got drafted, including winning the Memorial Cup. Watch the draft show and listen to the criticisms and concerns about the community. Skating was the biggest question mark at the time. He skipped the combine due to hip and back issues - nobody could look at him to even realize what the issue was.

Edit: forgot to add

If you're buying this speculation, then you should buy speculations about Vilardi's injuries:

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Sounds like a nagging back to me. Rob sold high.

Sorry, speculation from myopic liars carry less credence than someone with actual connections to the organization.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

 

[Pevsfreedom]

Poor guy doesn't even know which jersey to wear.

This trade is NOT looking good so far.

/s because people need it. Have fun in LA PLD.

 

[Dexter]

That hat is dope.

 

[salami]

That hat is dope.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[kingsjohn]

that hat is better than most of the posts in this thread