Elliotte Friedman: Chychrun May Be Available

hokiecat said:
Turcotte is not the professor. I watched Turcotte at rookie camp after he was drafted and he stood out. The skill and hustle was obvious to see even to me. So I get why he was picked 5th.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I was STOKED when they drafted him. And the almost unanimous consensus among talking heads was he was the right pick.

But he's struggled to produce in the pros and that is concerning. Even in college he wasn't tearing it up. So I'll throw out a couple of names. Upside is Mike Richards. More concerning case is Brett Connolly. Not in the style but in the sense that you have a 5-6 overall pick who is a solid NHL player but only as a contributing piece.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The reason I'm down on the Richards comparison is that he was always a stud offensively and Turcotte never has. I'm hoping for Ryan O'Reilly (less offense than Richards) but I'm with you, the down side is Brett Connolly, or maybe Ryan Strome who is a decent player but is a 28 yr old almost-journeyman who gets healthy scratched.

If I'm Blake, I don't want to trade Turcotte because I love the combination of hustle and skill but I move him to get my guy.
Click to expand...

I'm with you 100%. I don't want the Kings to trade Turcotte (unless they've already decided his cap is Connolly or Strome) because if they really think he can be another O'Reilly you don't trade him even for Chychrun (unless you think he's the next Fox, Carlsson, Theodore, etc.). But you've gotta give to get and I see no chance the Coyotes trade him for a package centering around guys like Vilardi, Fagemo, or Kupari. They're going to demand a team's 1st or 2nd best prospect and supposedly there are teams willing to do that.
 
drums4dmf said:
I thought we already agreed that Turcotte's ceiling is Richards? Which imo is pretty accurate...
Click to expand...

Do you really think Turcotte can put up these numbers, which Richards did from age 22 - 26?

2007-08 Flyers NHL 73 28 47 75
2008-09 Flyers NHL 79 30 50 80
2009-10 Flyers NHL 82 31 31 62
2010-11 Flyers NHL 81 23 43 66

With what I've seen so far from him, he seems like a 15 goal, 20 assist guy.

JT - I think the Toews comp is is in the ballpark. May need to change one of the seconds to a first and they may want an existing prospect to replace to 2nd rdr..
Click to expand...

I agree. The only thing that takes him out of the comps IMO is Lamoriello and the NYI situation at the time. They HAD to trade someone to get into cap compliance and with Toews demanding arb, it put Lamoriello in a tough spot and he lost a lot of his leverage for trading Toews. He was also pissed at Toews for demanding arb and anyone who's been around long enough to see how he handles that stuff knows he can do things that don't make sense to goofballs like me like he did with Rolston, Guerin, and other Devils. The Coyotes have ALL the leverage because they don't have any need at all to trade Chychrun.

So IMO Toews is a great player comp but the circumstances make him a lesser comp.
 
DryKing said:
Yeah I don't see Turcotte as a grinder, he has elite level hockey IQ and passing, and good shooting (a step under elite). What Turcotte has to do to make the team right now is grind and while he is capable of that, I don't see that as his true strength. I really think people are underestimating how much talent he truly has and the future will show it. Let's agree to revisit in 5 years.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, although lots of ginders have elite level hockey IQ like, say, Trevor Lewis. And while Turcotte has a good shot, can he translate it to the NHL when EVERYONE is playing at full speed? I haven't seen enough Reign games but what I've read is that he's a front-of-the-net player and that's one reason he's injured so much. As much as I like that, it means he'll probably be injured a lot since he's not a big guy.

I guess what makes me possibly underestimate his talent is that he's not showing it in the AHL. 9G and 22A for 31P in 50 games in the AHL isn't very impressive.
 
jt said:
Do you really think Turcotte can put up these numbers, which Richards did from age 22 - 26?

2007-08 Flyers NHL 73 28 47 75
2008-09 Flyers NHL 79 30 50 80
2009-10 Flyers NHL 82 31 31 62
2010-11 Flyers NHL 81 23 43 66

With what I've seen so far from him, he seems like a 15 goal, 20 assist guy.
Click to expand...

Yeah maybe instead of "ceiling" I could have stated "best case scenario" haha. Time will tell but you have a point - those stats will be very difficult to match...
 
jt said:
Fair enough, although lots of ginders have elite level hockey IQ like, say, Trevor Lewis. And while Turcotte has a good shot, can he translate it to the NHL when EVERYONE is playing at full speed? I haven't seen enough Reign games but what I've read is that he's a front-of-the-net player and that's one reason he's injured so much. As much as I like that, it means he'll probably be injured a lot since he's not a big guy.

I guess what makes me possibly underestimate his talent is that he's not showing it in the AHL. 9G and 22A for 31P in 50 games in the AHL isn't very impressive.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree it is a concern and I haven't quite put my finger on it. I'm sure injuries/illness played a role but it almost like he is too focused on playing defense / being responsible to open up offensively. I really hope he turns the corner once he, and the Organization, feel confident that his foundation has reached where it needs to be at the NHL level.
 
So, let's say he's the next Ryan O'Reilly. If you KNEW that's what you had, would you trade a 20 yr old O'Reilly + Bjornfot + Vilardi + 2022 1st for Chychrun?

And that's four 1st round assets, not the three the Coyotes are rumored to be asking for. But IF that's what it took, would you do it?
 
Instead of a poor mans Richards, Turcotte might be a rich mans Iafallo. Take the pedigrees out and it seems right. Might be a shame at number 5, but infinitely useful. Since I'm already on board with AI as the roster sweetener if you tell me I can get out of the proven for a maybe...well thanks Turcotte. That's under a three firsts scenario though. I don't like the 4 asset deal at all. If the Rags are offering a maybe from Russia as their roster player we can offer a recent AHL cup of coffee as well.
 
jammer06 said:
Instead of a poor mans Richards, Turcotte might be a rich mans Iafallo. Take the pedigrees out and it seems right. Might be a shame at number 5, but infinitely useful. Since I'm already on board with AI as the roster sweetener if you tell me I can get out of the proven for a maybe...well thanks Turcotte. That's under a three firsts scenario though. I don't like the 4 asset deal at all. If the Rags are offering a maybe from Russia as their roster player we can offer a recent AHL cup of coffee as well.
Click to expand...

Iafallo seems like a really good comp to Turcotte as the most likely outcome (assuming he makes the NHL at all), with O'Reilly as the top end and Trevor Lewis on the bottom end. Sure there are differences like Iafallo never played center and who knows if Turcotte can convert to win. But I like that comparison.

It's also interesting reading more on what the Coyotes are asking for and the fact that it seems more and more like Armstrong is will to wait until he gets what he's asking for. If that's the case, do you make the deal? On top of that, The Athletic had a good article in which they group players and they really don't like Chychrun (or Provorov) this year and they question if either of those guys can carry a 1st pairing or if they're support guys. IMO, the Kings can manage that since Doughty's going to be the one carrying a 1st pairing for several more years, but it's still a question. If Chychrun is a 2D and not a 1D, do you trade all those assets for him? Hmmmm...

The other thing I keep thinking about is why is he up for trade. When Zhitnik and Sydor were traded, there were lots of questions about why they would trade D that good who looked like they could be 1/1A D. And then the stories came out that Zhitnik had alcohol problems and Sydor had lost all his confidence, so the Kings didn't think either one would be a reliable stud on D. Is there something similar wrong with Chychrun? Hmmmm...
 
jt said:
Iafallo seems like a really good comp to Turcotte as the most likely outcome (assuming he makes the NHL at all), with O'Reilly as the top end and Trevor Lewis on the bottom end. Sure there are differences like Iafallo never played center and who knows if Turcotte can convert to win. But I like that comparison.

It's also interesting reading more on what the Coyotes are asking for and the fact that it seems more and more like Armstrong is will to wait until he gets what he's asking for. If that's the case, do you make the deal? On top of that, The Athletic had a good article in which they group players and they really don't like Chychrun (or Provorov) this year and they question if either of those guys can carry a 1st pairing or if they're support guys. IMO, the Kings can manage that since Doughty's going to be the one carrying a 1st pairing for several more years, but it's still a question. If Chychrun is a 2D and not a 1D, do you trade all those assets for him? Hmmmm...

The other thing I keep thinking about is why is he up for trade. When Zhitnik and Sydor were traded, there were lots of questions about why they would trade D that good who looked like they could be 1/1A D. And then the stories came out that Zhitnik had alcohol problems and Sydor had lost all his confidence, so the Kings didn't think either one would be a reliable stud on D. Is there something similar wrong with Chychrun? Hmmmm...
Click to expand...

I saw that athletic article and it's a fair point. The question of driving a D pair does seem less on the Kings, so long as they don't give up those complementary pieces that would make Chychrun useful. As a bargaining chit in the ask though, that's going to depend on the market and not cleverly written articles.

The yotes should outwait everyone for their ask, most notably because they shouldn't be trading this guy. Its hard to equate this to the Duschene situation though. Sakic wasn't Yzerman light back then but he definitely knew what he had. He also had a lot of lattitude considering he'd just won the "don't be as crazy as Roy" contest regarding control of the Lanche. Not sure how much rope Armstrong has with the mercurial situation in Phoenix. If there are issues like Zhitnik or Sydor, that's more of a cut bait situation. Don't think Armstrong waits out the world if that's the case. I couldn't say what the market should be but I know 3 assets is a lot, if 4 gets it done...well only Blake and Armstrong are privy to that. My suspicion is that Blake is more concerned about staying in it than forcing a deal though. It's the right play all things considered.
 
Helvetica said:
I still think he's either requested a trade, or the team is dealing with more financial issues than we're aware of.
Click to expand...

That seems like a realistic possibility. I don't remember for sure, but I think it might have been the Islanders about 15-20 yrs ago, but at one point they traded nearly every player making more than the NHL minimum and had a payroll of something like $17M. And the sole reason they did that was to make the team attractive to a buyer who could come in and build an organization essentially from scratch. It wouldn't be surprising if Arizona's doing something like that.
 
jammer06 said:
I saw that athletic article and it's a fair point. The question of driving a D pair does seem less on the Kings, so long as they don't give up those complementary pieces that would make Chychrun useful. As a bargaining chit in the ask though, that's going to depend on the market and not cleverly written articles.

The yotes should outwait everyone for their ask, most notably because they shouldn't be trading this guy. Its hard to equate this to the Duschene situation though. Sakic wasn't Yzerman light back then but he definitely knew what he had. He also had a lot of lattitude considering he'd just won the "don't be as crazy as Roy" contest regarding control of the Lanche. Not sure how much rope Armstrong has with the mercurial situation in Phoenix. If there are issues like Zhitnik or Sydor, that's more of a cut bait situation. Don't think Armstrong waits out the world if that's the case. I couldn't say what the market should be but I know 3 assets is a lot, if 4 gets it done...well only Blake and Armstrong are privy to that. My suspicion is that Blake is more concerned about staying in it than forcing a deal though. It's the right play all things considered.
Click to expand...

It makes me think of McDonagh on TB. At 28 on the Rangers he looked like he might not even be a top 4D. But with Hedman as the clear workhorse, McDonagh is a world-class stud as a support guy and IMO would have been worth trading what the Coyotes want for Chychrun...but only because Doughty plays the role of Hedman (although admittedly not at that level anymore).

It really was interesting to put together that list of comps. I didn't see a point in going so far back as trades involving Coffey, Housley, MacInnis, Pronger, Chelios, and Murphy. Maybe 24 yr old Phaneuf, Sjostrom and Aulie for Stajan, Hagman, Mayers and White is relevant, but IMO times have changed since then. But to see almost nobody anywhere close to what it looks like Chychrun is get traded was eye opening.
 
jt said:
It makes me think of McDonagh on TB. At 28 on the Rangers he looked like he might not even be a top 4D. But with Hedman as the clear workhorse, McDonagh is a world-class stud as a support guy and IMO would have been worth trading what the Coyotes want for Chychrun...but only because Doughty plays the role of Hedman (although admittedly not at that level anymore).

It really was interesting to put together that list of comps. I didn't see a point in going so far back as trades involving Coffey, Housley, MacInnis, Pronger, Chelios, and Murphy. Maybe 24 yr old Phaneuf, Sjostrom and Aulie for Stajan, Hagman, Mayers and White is relevant, but IMO times have changed since then. But to see almost nobody anywhere close to what it looks like Chychrun is get traded was eye opening.
Click to expand...

Oh man that whole thing where they stole Stralman and then got McDonagh..... New York might be the single biggest reason that Tampa has this decade of dominance. Clearly though that 2nd tier Dman is nearly as effective as the two studs. Mitchell doesn't get near the credit he deserved on our cup teams. Slava was Slava but he benefited greatly from that poise. Now I'm back on my "there's gotta be a way to pry Sergachev" kick if they can't get Chychrun done.
 
jammer06 said:
Oh man that whole thing where they stole Stralman and then got McDonagh..... New York might be the single biggest reason that Tampa has this decade of dominance. Clearly though that 2nd tier Dman is nearly as effective as the two studs. Mitchell doesn't get near the credit he deserved on our cup teams. Slava was Slava but he benefited greatly from that poise. Now I'm back on my "there's gotta be a way to pry Sergachev" kick if they can't get Chychrun done.
Click to expand...

And you're right about them waiting it all out. There's no rush (unless they know something is "wrong" with Chychrun). Just like the Sabres and Eichel. Put out your ask and eventually SOMEONE will meet it.

As for Sergachev, it seems crazy that TB would trade him.
 
The rumored centerpieces of trades are these:

Kings: Tucotte
Rangers: Kravtsov or maybe Miller, Schneider, or Lundkvist
Stars: Tippett or Denisenko, but the Coyotes might insist on Lundell
Hurricanes: Necas
Ducks: Comtois or Perreault

Other teams "interested" are:
Bruins: Swayman or Carlo?
Blues: Perunovich, Thomas, or Kyrou?
Wings: Zadina but the Coyotes might insist on Edvinsson or Cossa
Islanders: Dobson and Raty
Oilers: no word
Senators: no word
Leafs: no word
 
If you suppose part of the reason for dealing him is his contract pays more than his aav, you have to assume any of these RFA's coming back look to be in a similar situation where they can get a couple of cheaper years vs aav (supposing they are looking to sell). Of all of them Necas is probably the most solid player. No idea what the rest of their hand looks like though. I doubt Lindell makes sense since his contract would be more in that context. Ducks probably have as deep a hand depending on what the yotes want. I just cant see Kravstov getting it done unless Armstrong had a hard on for him.

If the blues offered Kyrou you take that deal and walk away a happy man. That kid can play.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Now Chirping

Share this page

Back
Top