Gabe Vilardi?

[bigfan3]

Totally agree that we need to get him on the 1st PP next season. When I think about how he projects going forward, I see him a bit like a Ryan Smyth (in terms of PP specialist/effectiveness but not necessarily style). I remember Smyth often being underrated and getting knocked for such a high percentage of his goals/points coming on the PP, but having that type of player on the Kings today would really be a blessing.



This feels spot on to me. Out of all of our forward prospects it's impressive how quickly Kaliyev has grown, addressed and overcome his perceived deficiencies, and has been willing to muck it up on the 4th line to add value to the team. I can envision him becoming a 40 goal scorer at some point in the future, though, as you said, it will depend on the right linemates. Either way, though, I agree and expect him to take a big jump forward next season purely based on how quickly he has grown and adapted this season, and the skillset he possesses.

Why do you guys keep thinking, saying or even considering Kopitar as a 1st line center. Haven't you guys noticed. Kopitar should be at best our number 2 center and maybe our number 3 center. The reality is he looks slow and tired. He was never that fast to begin with but now his big advantage, his size, it's almost non existent. Everybody is big in the NHL...almost. I love Kopi, great captain, Stanley Cup winner, Award winner Center, future HOF player etc but let's all be honest, put him to fill a role, shot down centerman with some ofense and manage your expectations.

Onto Byfield, guys he is only 19. Also manage your expectations. Do you guys remember a teenager name Draisaitl? Do you remember what happened to him his first season? Exactly, he was sent down, couldn't do it up in the NHL.

Vilardi. A whole different story. I think what drives coaches and GM crazy is his lack of passion and tenacity when he plays. He always plays "looking" uninterested and we all love players that play with passion, that leave everything on the ice. He is soooo talented, he has been unlucky with his health but I feel he plays feeling sorry for himself. I really hope he takes control of his career and decides to be the player we all see he can be.

I wish them all luck and success.

 

[MiketheKing]

Why do you guys keep thinking, saying or even considering Kopitar as a 1st line center. Haven't you guys noticed. Kopitar should be at best our number 2 center and maybe our number 3 center. The reality is he looks slow and tired. He was never that fast to begin with but now his big advantage, his size, it's almost non existent. Everybody is big in the NHL...almost. I love Kopi, great captain, Stanley Cup winner, Award winner Center, future HOF player etc but let's all be honest, put him to fill a role, shot down centerman with some ofense and manage your expectations.

Onto Byfield, guys he is only 19. Also manage your expectations. Do you guys remember a teenager name Draisaitl? Do you remember what happened to him his first season? Exactly, he was sent down, couldn't do it up in the NHL.

Vilardi. A whole different story. I think what drives coaches and GM crazy is his lack of passion and tenacity when he plays. He always plays "looking" uninterested and we all love players that play with passion, that leave everything on the ice. He is soooo talented, he has been unlucky with his health but I feel he plays feeling sorry for himself. I really hope he takes control of his career and decides to be the player we all see he can be.

I wish them all luck and success.

Vilardi will have a great career in the sweedish or german league soon if he doesnt get his head right.

 

[Helvetica]

Why do you guys keep thinking, saying or even considering Kopitar as a 1st line center.

look at his TOI. His points. Look who coach throws out there in crunch time. You can knock his game all you want, but fact is he's this team's 1st line center. Suggesting anything to the contrary is foolish.

 

[bigfan3]

look at his TOI. His points. Look who coach throws out there in crunch time. You can knock his game all you want, but fact is he's this team's 1st line center. Suggesting anything to the contrary is foolish.

I understand what you are saying and in terms of TOI you are probably right, however in terms of everything else, I, personally, don't think so.

Also, as of now, don't think they have a ready replacement

 

[Helvetica]

I understand what you are saying and in terms of TOI you are probably right, however in terms of everything else, I, personally, don't think so.

Also, as of now, don't think they have a ready replacement

there is definitely no replacement. That part is for sure. But go look at various player rankings. Kopitar is a top 30 center in this league.

 

[bigfan3]

there is definitely no replacement. That part is for sure. But go look at various player rankings. Kopitar is a top 30 center in this league.

Not good enough then, for sure. Come on, we are LA, we all must expect better. I repeat, I love Kopi and thankful for everything he has done however, we must get better at that position

 

[DryKing]

Not good enough then, for sure. Come on, we are LA, we all must expect better. I repeat, I love Kopi and thankful for everything he has done however, we must get better at that position

We know Kopitar is in the latter part of his career and needs to be supplanted as the 1C some day soon, but today he is still the 1C and a legitimate 1C in the league. Interestingly, the plan was to cut down on his TOI yet he ranks 6th in centers @ 20:46/game. Danault ranks 47th.

I would say it's more time management than anything when it comes to Kopitar. Hopefully next season we see his minutes cut back allowing him to be more fresh on the ice. The fact the Kings have been unable to cut back his minutes despite having another very good center in Danault, simply speaks to how valuable and coveted Kopitar is on the Kings.

 

[jt]

I don't see this as a coach playing favorites, so much as a coach knowing the identity of the team and playing the guys who are doing the little things that keep the team moving in the right direction.

I think TM plays his favorites. EVERY good coach plays their favorites and it's ridiculous to think they should do anything else. And why shouldn't they? What coach in their right mind would play players they don't trust enough to be their favorites?

Not one of the coach's favorites? Well start doing the things that will make you one of them.

There's still time for him. He hasn't played that much over the past several years (~130 games across NHL and AHL). TBH, i expect him to be traded, but i think a different team might do him some good.

Yeah, nearly every time I see him interviewed and watch his body language, he seems to be unhappy...and not in the good way like Kesler. He needs to mature and a trade might help him do that...or give him a chance to re-set with new teammates, coaches, and front office.

Agreed it's a lack of confidence, but also a lack of speed keeping him out of the lineup. I think Vilardi will be a solid contributor if he gets steady playing time to help him develop his quickness (traits to overcome his lack of speed physically as well as an ability to mentally process the game faster) but it is seemingly less and less likely that he is a long term fit for the Kings until they begin balancing speed with size. Put him on a team like Boston and I think he will start lighting the lamp regularly.

I don't see it as a lack of confidence. I see it as a lack of willingness (or ability) to do the things he needs to do to succeed in the Kings' system. If someone wants to say the Kings should change their system to accommodate Vilardi's skill set, that's fine (although I'd disagree). But Vilardi has said it himself, he hasn't played defense the way he needs to.

By blunt opinion is that he comes across as a privileged athlete who doesn't think he should have to do the things he's told to do to help the team win.

 

[Kurisu]

Interestingly, the plan was to cut down on his TOI yet he ranks 6th in centers @ 20:46/game. Danault ranks 47th.

I would say it's more time management than anything when it comes to Kopitar. Hopefully next season we see his minutes cut back allowing him to be more fresh on the ice. The fact the Kings have been unable to cut back his minutes despite having another very good center in Danault, simply speaks to how valuable and coveted Kopitar is on the Kings.

I'm mildly surprised to see those numbers regarding TOI, but not shocked. I bet the plan was to use Danault's defensive acumen to relieve Kopi of some of those minutes, but when he started flourishing with Moore and Arvi as our most reliable offensive line that plan got adjusted to accommodate that development.

Remember the thinking was Danault would open up Kopi's scoring? Funny how that all played out. Kopi was still getting the key shutdown assignments down the stretch, just like forever.

 

[Helvetica]

I think TM plays his favorites. EVERY good coach plays their favorites and it's ridiculous to think they should do anything else. And why shouldn't they? What coach in their right mind would play players they don't trust enough to be their favorites?

Not one of the coach's favorites? Well start doing the things that will make you one of them.

Maybe "favorites" was a poor choice of words, because i do agree, coach doe splay favorites. But i was implying that he's not playing guys simply because he likes them, but because they've proven to be reliable. I think we're probably saying the same thing, but just wanted to clarify.

And now that we're talking about it, i find that a lot of the discussions keep coming back to roles for me. Vilardi has not yet carved out a niche for himself. He should be capable of scoring and creating plays. But if he's not at least doing those things, effecting the game on the scorers sheet in a positive manor, he isn't doing the other things at a level that warrant keeping him in the lineup.

He could do other things well, and earn a spot that way. But i think coach would keep him in if he was generating offense only. By comparison, Durzi isnt our best defenseman, and he makes some mistakes. But he does typically generate a solid breakout and transition. Coach is going to keep him in there because even if he makes some mistakes, he's generally impacting the game in a positive manor by getting the puck up and out of the zone quickly.

 

[jt]

Maybe "favorites" was a poor choice of words, because i do agree, coach doe splay favorites. But i was implying that he's not playing guys simply because he likes them, but because they've proven to be reliable. I think we're probably saying the same thing, but just wanted to clarify.

Yeah, we are. I don't mean to pick on Reg or Rog?, but this sentiment:

I wouldn't go that far, but it would be nice if Gabe had the same treatment as say, Alex Iafallo. Vilardi's on the short leash while AI is constantly given too much rope, in my always humble opinion.

I still think there's something going on we don't know about. Or maybe's it's as simple as Coach Todd doesn't like Gabe. Personality conflict perhaps?

...gets under my skin. I can't imagine how anyone could think a successful NHL coach (which TM is) does anything other than play the players who give the team the best chance of winning. The ONLY exceptions to that are things like discipline, injuries, pacing for a full season.... Successful NHL coaches DO NOT healthy scratch players because they have personality conflicts (that don't show up as players not doing what the coach tells them to do). Take Ovechkin for example. Dale Hunter never once did anything to him because he had a personality conflict. He benched him because he wouldn't do what Hunter told him to do (like keep his shifts to 40 seconds and Ovechkin would play 2+ minutes shifts).

And now that we're talking about it, i find that a lot of the discussions keep coming back to roles for me. Vilardi has not yet carved out a niche for himself. He should be capable of scoring and creating plays. But if he's not at least doing those things, effecting the game on the scorers sheet in a positive manor, he isn't doing the other things at a level that warrant keeping him in the lineup.

Agreed.

He could do other things well, and earn a spot that way. But i think coach would keep him in if he was generating offense only. By comparison, Durzi isnt our best defenseman, and he makes some mistakes. But he does typically generate a solid breakout and transition. Coach is going to keep him in there because even if he makes some mistakes, he's generally impacting the game in a positive manor by getting the puck up and out of the zone quickly.

Yup. And it's not like he was playing with shlubs. He played 6 games at center with Tkachev, Kaliyev, and Moore. Then Lizotte and Grundstrom for a game. And in those 7 games he wouldn't play defense or with enough heart. So they were going to healthy scratch him but he went into covid protocols. Then they sent him to Ontario and guys like Fagemo, Turcotte, and JAD got callups and played instead of Vilardi because he wasn't doing the things in Ontario the Kings wanted him to. Then they called him up for the 3/13 game against Florida and he played with Byfield and Kupari for 15 games (with Grundstrom playing 1 game in place of Kupari). What did he do? Not much...2 goals, 0 assists, and a -3 usually playing 13-14 minutes per game but with seven games over 14 minutes and never once below 11:40.

Lizotte has a place on this team because Vilardi wouldn't do what Lizotte would. Iafallo and Brown played with Kopi for so long because they did the things Vilardi wouldn't. Same with Moore, Grundstrom, and Brown. AA won't do those things but he plays because he scores and Vilardi doesn't. Kupari plays instead of Vilardi because he does the things Vilardi won't.

I want Vilardi to succeed as much as anyone but gifting him ice time he doesn't earn won't lead to success.

 

[jammer06]

For as high of hopes as I have for Gabe's skills, I agree he's appearing out of runway here to take off. The reasons are many, not all of them are on him but there are significant ones that are. Here's to hoping Blake evaluates this one the best way for the club, and Gabe too if possible.

 

[LAKingSteve]

For as high of hopes as I have for Gabe's skills, I agree he's appearing out of runway here to take off. The reasons are many, not all of them are on him but there are significant ones that are. Here's to hoping Blake evaluates this one the best way for the club, and Gabe too if possible.

Yeah, I think he's trade bait in the offseason.

 

[Reg or Rog?]

Yeah, we are. I don't mean to pick on Reg or Rog?, but this sentiment:

...gets under my skin.

It's cool. It doesn't bother me in the least. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

I didn't think Gabe got a fair shot...but then again, I missed a full month of games...and evidently those were the games where Coach Todd lost confidence (or whatever) in Vilardi. So in way, I'm not really qualified to make an observation as to what transpired since I didn't actually see it.

I'm biased too, because I really wanted Gabe to succeed.

Having stated all that, coaches and players are people, and personalities always factor into decisions. It's the same in all walks of life, from bosses and their employees in business to sports at all levels.

I made my way up the food chain to become a supervisor in my profession many years ago. And I always have my favorites on the job. I usually tend to favor the harder working individuals...the ones that make me look the best. If a project is completed on time, and the contractor makes money, I win. If the job is shut down or behind schedule, for whatever reasons...failed inspections or other performance related issues, I lose. So yeah, I always want to put my best men out front.

But to say that personalities do not factor into these labor decisions is shortsighted and myopic and not based in reality. If we were freaking robots, I'd agree with you 100% But we are human, and that human element cannot be ignored.

Reading the various posts here on Gabe, it appears the problem was lack of effort. But man, Gabe sure seems to be on a short leash compared to other young players. But I'm an electrician, not a hockey coach, so what do I know? Obviously Coach Todd saw something he didn't like and that's that. If I had seen the games in question, maybe it would be obvious to me too.

The last time I saw Gabe he was on the Champagne Line and doing fine. But obviously something changed.

I really like Coach Todd. I always have. Even when he was The Enemy. I was very happy with the hire, and I still want him as our coach. So I trust his decisions are the right ones. But I am extremely disappointed that Gabe appears to be on his way out. I'm just happy I didn't buy a Vilardi jersey. This is why I NEVER buy sports gear with players names on them. The two times I made that mistake, that player was gone almost immediately after I bought it. And sure enough, that player went to a rival team, making the decision ever more egregious. None of my current sports gear have names on the back.

Anyway, it's a bummer Gabe is toast. I just hope he doesn't land on the Sharts or Quacks, and that decision comes back and bites us on the butt.

At the moment I'm just happy the Kings are in the playoffs (We are, right? I didn't jinx us again, did I?). Quick is playing like the Quick of old (including that laugher Saturday) and a lot of the kids are coming around (AA, QB and Kaliyev especially) and Maatta and Roy are playing much better. So there's plenty of reasons for optimism (except for our power play).

But I am going to miss Gabe, if and when he's gone.

 

[Helvetica]

But to say that personalities do not factor into these labor decisions is shortsighted and myopic and not based in reality. If we were freaking robots, I'd agree with you 100% But we are human, and that human element cannot be ignored.

I think that's a fair point, but i think the degree to which professional hockey coaches allow general likes and dislikes on a personal level to affect their roster choices is significantly lower than what we hear from a lot of fans. This is not directed at you per se, but you go to any fan site... Any social media platform... and it's not uncommon for fans to imply that such and such a player isn't getting play because the coach simply doesn't like him. it just simply isn't likely to happen at this level of play. The stakes are too high. It's not unlike hearing fans talk about the league rigging the drafts. It just doesn't happen.

I could potentially see this type of scenario playing out in much lower leagues. But at the NHL level, i think it's simply not feasible for coaches to bench guys based on how well they get along or not. A kid's dad pisses off the coach, or the kid talks back during practice, sure... that kid might see less time on the ice. Mostly because nobody is watching and the coach can do whatever s/he wants. At the NHL level, there's too much money and too many jobs at stake. And there's literally thousands and thousands more people watching.

As an aside, but sort of related. I thought i had heard that Sutter and matt greene didnt really get along well. And by the end of sutter's tenure, the team even locked him out of the room after a game. The league is riddled with stories of players and coaches hating each other in the locker room. But they still seemingly all battle for each other out on the ice.

 

[jt]

I didn't think Gabe got a fair shot...but then again, I missed a full month of games...and evidently those were the games where Coach Todd lost confidence (or whatever) in Vilardi. So in way, I'm not really qualified to make an observation as to what transpired since I didn't actually see it.

That's the thing. On the one hand you're saying he didn't get a fair shot and on the other hand you're saying you don't know how he didn't get a fair shot. So what is it? If you think he didn't get a fair shot...how is it he didn't?

I'm biased too, because I really wanted Gabe to succeed.

Is there ANYONE who didn't want him to succeed? Seriously, name one person who didn't want him to succeed.

Having stated all that, coaches and players are people, and personalities always factor into decisions. It's the same in all walks of life, from bosses and their employees in business to sports at all levels.

I disagree 100%. Not one single successful NHL coach makes decisions based on personalities unless the "personality conflict" shows up as a problem elsewhere (like breaking curfew, long-shifting, not playing within the coach's game plan, or maybe making fun of Dustin Brown's speech impediment). I guarantee you that TM is not going to bench Trevor Moore because he doesn't like Moore's personality. If he gets benched it's because he's doing something wrong. Player and commentator after player and commentator have said it. You make it sound like Vilardi should get a free pass on his actual play and attitude on and off the ice.

I made my way up the food chain to become a supervisor in my profession many years ago. And I always have my favorites on the job. I usually tend to favor the harder working individuals...the ones that make me look the best. If a project is completed on time, and the contractor makes money, I win. If the job is shut down or behind schedule, for whatever reasons...failed inspections or other performance related issues, I lose. So yeah, I always want to put my best men out front.

Best "men"? Hmmmm...

Your example shows your style had nothing to do with personalities. It was all about performance and doing what you, as the supervisor, laid out for them to do. If they did it, they were out front, if they didn't they weren't. That's not "personality conflicts", that's your people doing what you (as the supervisor) told them to do...or not doing it and suffering the consequences.

But to say that personalities do not factor into these labor decisions is shortsighted and myopic and not based in reality. If we were freaking robots, I'd agree with you 100% But we are human, and that human element cannot be ignored.

I don't know what else to say other than player after player who talks about it thinks differently than you. The way you're putting it sounds like Vilardi should be playing and isn't because TM doesn't like his personality and it has nothing to do with his play on the ice. And that's just flat out wrong.

Reading the various posts here on Gabe, it appears the problem was lack of effort. But man, Gabe sure seems to be on a short leash compared to other young players. But I'm an electrician, not a hockey coach, so what do I know? Obviously Coach Todd saw something he didn't like and that's that. If I had seen the games in question, maybe it would be obvious to me too.

Sure, but that has nothing to do with a "personality conflict". It's that he doesn't do the things the coaches tell him to do. They say it, his teammates have said it, hell even HE has said it.

The last time I saw Gabe he was on the Champagne Line and doing fine. But obviously something changed.

I don't know what games you watched but look at the stats and maybe rewatch the games. Vilardi's play was NOT fine.

I really like Coach Todd. I always have. Even when he was The Enemy. I was very happy with the hire, and I still want him as our coach. So I trust his decisions are the right ones. But I am extremely disappointed that Gabe appears to be on his way out. I'm just happy I didn't buy a Vilardi jersey. This is why I NEVER buy sports gear with players names on them. The two times I made that mistake, that player was gone almost immediately after I bought it. And sure enough, that player went to a rival team, making the decision ever more egregious. None of my current sports gear have names on the back.

EVERYONE is disappointed he's on his way out. But it's not TM and some "personality conflict." It's Vilardi and his willingness to play the way TM demands his players play.

 

[DryKing]

I don't know what games you watched but look at the stats and maybe rewatch the games. Vilardi's play was NOT fine.

Just my opinion but I thought he looked fine but out of place on that line (too slow of a skater to keep up). Hopefully he stays with the Kings, starts off next season on a better suited line, gets some early success and I think he will bloom quickly from there. It's pretty obvious his hold-up at this point is largely mental. I don't think it's a lack of effort, just a lack of confidence (and possibly acceptance of his role) holding him back.

I'd still like to see him get some time with Kopitar and see what the two of them can do together.

 

[jt]

Just my opinion but I thought he looked fine but out of place on that line (too slow of a skater to keep up). Hopefully he stays with the Kings, starts off next season on a better suited line, gets some early success and I think he will bloom quickly from there. It's pretty obvious his hold-up at this point is largely mental. I don't think it's a lack of effort, just a lack of confidence (and possibly acceptance of his role) holding him back.

I'd still like to see him get some time with Kopitar and see what the two of them can do together.

Those are fair points and of course none of us (me included) really know. But it looks to me to be attitude not confidence. I said it earlier and I'll say it again: he looks to me like an entitled athlete who thinks he's above having to work hard.

 

[jgs]

Gabe isn't playing any worse than Iafalo. Yet Iafalo is consistently in the line up and doesn't miss a shift and Gabe gets sat out. There is definately something wrong there. TM needs to be fair and consistent in his evaluation of players. Personally Iafalo isn't good at all.

 

[Helvetica]

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/LAK/index.html

His possession metrics are some of the worst on the team. And for a team that thrives on possession, that's going to be a problem. You should also take a gander at his take aways vs. giveaways as opposed to Iaffalo.