How is this allowed and not more talked about? Please explain!

[Sevenhole]

I have to believe most players have enough tax consultants to figure out how to narrow the simple state tax differences. As stated above they pay the state rate for games played there. It you want to extend the discussion to the absurd then the season schedule would play into the equation

 

[FBJ]

I just closed on a house in another state across the country. I love my house here, however, it is time. I will still have a house in the desert so I can come back and stay for a bit, however, I will be selling the home I am in now. As I get older, I want my money to last a bit longer, so I don't have to deal with the CA tax, gas and other expenses living in So Cal. I have lived here all my life, however when I visit the new home, I feel more relaxed. My new neighbor next door told me he paid $133 for electricity last month and he said he had the AC going all month long. I told him, if I didn't have solar, I would be paying $600-700 per month in So Cal in the summer months. BTW, I paid $3.09 for gas.

Best of luck in your new digs.

We picked up in 2015 and moved to AZ. There’s only two things I miss about SoCal: really good asian food and being able to go see the Kings play.

 

[Pevsfreedom]

Best of luck in your new digs.

We picked up in 2015 and moved to AZ. There’s only two things I miss about SoCal: really good asian food and being able to go see the Kings play.

We moved in 2017? after I left for the military in 2010 and came back and was priced out of my home town (mission hills), tho we first went to oregon for 5 years (bleh overcast) -- but yes -- over east coast there is no good asian food which is terribly sad and I can sorta see the Kings play once a year which is nice, but it is about all I miss besides nostalgia stuff.

I just closed on a house in another state across the country. I love my house here, however, it is time. I will still have a house in the desert so I can come back and stay for a bit, however, I will be selling the home I am in now. As I get older, I want my money to last a bit longer, so I don't have to deal with the CA tax, gas and other expenses living in So Cal. I have lived here all my life, however when I visit the new home, I feel more relaxed. My new neighbor next door told me he paid $133 for electricity last month and he said he had the AC going all month long. I told him, if I didn't have solar, I would be paying $600-700 per month in So Cal in the summer months. BTW, I paid $3.09 for gas.

Hey congrats we'll see you at the annual Kings game perchance! AC's been blasting 24/7 and we pay $160 or so with no natural gas. I spend less than $90 a month on car gas though I don't drive much. There's a ton of houses for sale in our neighborhood which is interesting as they're nicer than ours and selling for less lol but we bought right before it got too terrible.

 

[ICE24]

We moved in 2017? after I left for the military in 2010 and came back and was priced out of my home town (mission hills), tho we first went to oregon for 5 years (bleh overcast) -- but yes -- over east coast there is no good asian food which is terribly sad and I can sorta see the Kings play once a year which is nice, but it is about all I miss besides nostalgia stuff.



Hey congrats we'll see you at the annual Kings game perchance! AC's been blasting 24/7 and we pay $160 or so with no natural gas. I spend less than $90 a month on car gas though I don't drive much. There's a ton of houses for sale in our neighborhood which is interesting as they're nicer than ours and selling for less lol but we bought right before it got too terrible.

I’ll see you at the Carolina game. I am also going to try to go to a Nashville game.

 

[LB49er]

Every Canadian team says, “Cry me a river.” Pretty sure the tax bracket tor most NHLers in CAN is 33-freakin-percent.

But I agree, it is a bit messed up, given the salary cap’s restrictions. I mean, FL has been the home of the Stanley Cup for three of the last five years, but going back to 2006, the winners seem to have come relatively equally from both high and low tax states.

 

[emsomaso]

Every Canadian team says, “Cry me a river.” Pretty sure the tax bracket tor most NHLers in CAN is 33-freakin-percent.

But I agree, it is a bit messed up, given the salary cap’s restrictions. I mean, FL has been the home of the Stanley Cup for three of the last five years, but going back to 2006, the winners seem to have come relatively equally from both high and low tax states.

Thank you for your thoughts. Since Vegas also can offer no income taxes it’s actually 4 of the last 5 winners.

 

[hokiecat]

Why is it that only hockey has this "sun belt" no tax situation? Basketball doesn't with high tax Celtics winning this year. Football had a high tax dynasty with the Pats and then had Rams and Chiefs as champions. This whole argument seems very specious to me. Some sports writer wrote it initially and a bunch of whiners in loser cities like NYC climbed on board... Voters in CA, NY, Canada could vote for candidates to reduce or zero the state sales tax rather than have the NHL make a special tax rate exemption (which is quite stupid).

Doughty is a great King but his contract is pretty dreadful at 11M. What if we had signed Drew at Makar or Hughes levels? Toronto is suddenly realizing that signing 4 forwards for half the cap space is a bad move.

Last, NHL radio interviewed Bill Zito while I was driving home this morning. The interview noted that Kuilikov took less money for the stability of a 4-year team. Everyone notes that the Panthers kept Reinhart on the big contract deal. But they lost Montour, OEL, Lomberg (back to Calgary and he was talked about a bunch), Mahura, Stenlund, and Tank. They also had to replace Stolarz with Driedger because they got priced out. One thing Florida does great-- and Zito noted-- is they improve players' game. Plenty of players have gone there and had career years and then signed for a bunch elsewhere. Some take a discount to stick around. Zito noted how it is easier to recruit guys when you can point to that development and improvement. When players like Montour (went from good to great) and OEL (went from washed up to very good) and just another success story for the Panthers hockey ops, then free agents are going to want to sign there. If you were some 25-year old trying to grow your career would you sign with the Panthers who made the 2 D rich as well as guys like Reinhart and Forsling and Bennett and Verhaege having huge jumps in point shares per season with FLA vs another NHL team)? Or would you sign with the Kings who could be perceived as tanking PLD's value?

 

[emsomaso]

Okay, but I still don’t understand why it would be such a ”stupid idea” for NHL to regulate this and I still don’t see why it would be ”whining” to talk about how some teams are allowed to get such a huge advantage.

Because no matter what, getting players like Hedman, Kucherov and Stamkos (on his previous deal) to sign for $2-3MM less than what it would cost canadian or californian teams to sign them makes it a lot easier to put together a winning team…

But maybe the silence about this injustice is, like one member tried to explain earlier in this thread, purely ”a US thing” and something I as a non US citizen can’t fully understand…

Never mind, I’m moving on!

GKG

 

[VCRW]

You’re correct that it is an advantage and it would be easy to fix but the league and the players don’t really care. At the end of the day the players as a collective will always get their guaranteed revenue split.

If teams with tax advantages suddenly start dominating the sport then maybe the cap rules would get tweaked but look at the other professional leagues beyond the NHL there’s not really any correlation that can be drawn from tax advantage and winning a championship.

Tampa Bay and The Panthers have been to the Finals more than any other teams in recent years. Their tax advantaged situation is a real issue vs. the salary cap. I don’t think there is any “If” at all.

 

[emsomaso]

Tampa Bay and The Panthers have been to the Finals more than any other teams in recent years. Their tax advantaged situation is a real issue vs. the salary cap. I don’t think there is any “If” at all.

If we include Vegas, which we should since their players also doesn’t pay these taxes, it looks even more ”unfair”!

 

[Bollocks]

I think a net pay-based cap would make the most sense from a fairness standpoint. Not so sure about the whole logic behind the cap (revenue sharing principle and all that) and how it could impact smaller market teams with higher taxes when it comes to reaching the cap floor...

Is there some cap-guru that could shed some light on this?

 

[hokiecat]

Okay, but I still don’t understand why it would be such a ”stupid idea” for NHL to regulate this and I still don’t see why it would be ”whining” to talk about how some teams are allowed to get such a huge advantage.

Because no matter what, getting players like Hedman, Kucherov and Stamkos (on his previous deal) to sign for $2-3MM less than what it would cost canadian or californian teams to sign them makes it a lot easier to put together a winning team…

But maybe the silence about this injustice is, like one member tried to explain earlier in this thread, purely ”a US thing” and something I as a non US citizen can’t fully understand…

Never mind, I’m moving on!

GKG

The states and provinces set their tax rates. Is it Florida's fault that California wants to tax the heck out of people. Gas is $4.89 here and $3.25 in the south. Should the NHL adjust the cap for cost of living? What about cheap housing in a place like St. Louis as compared to Manhattan?

The NHL doesn't need to be in the business of manipulating the cap to suit teams. Then we'll end up with something convoluted like the current US federal tax system where instead of paying a flat rate, people can manipulate the system. While it is an interesting idea in theory, it very quickly becomes unworkable. I just returned from a vacation in Australia. They just cut taxes (their fiscal year ends June 30) to help offset inflation. What if California did that effective January 1? The Kings could have been cap compliant on opening day. But the tax rate goes down and suddenly they are over the cap because their income tax offset goes away. Does Blake have to panic trade players away over the holidays? And, like I said above, if you factor in income taxes then why not property tax and cost of living. The concept gets unwieldy quickly. What if a player gets traded from the Panthers to the Kings? Does his salary get increased? What about the reverse-- does a guy take a pay cut if traded from Canada to Vegas? Why would the NHL want to add complexity related to things they cannot control (i.e. tax rates)? So that they can placate some whiny writers? It is never going to happen. Players already game the tax system getting paid big bonuses rather than salary.

FL/WA/NV/TN/TX didn't cut their tax rates to zero in 2020. The difference has always been there. Yet, the zero tax teams were mostly terrible 2010-2019 while high tax teams in IL, CA, MA, etc were winning Cups.
Last, what about the Canada exit tax and how it kept Tanev north? Chris Tanev on his homecoming with the Maple Leafs: "Winning in Toronto is the ultimate goal"
If a guy plays in Canada for his entire career, then he's got the golden handcuffs on when it comes to picking between a Canadian and US team.

 

[SirJW]

Larry Brooks talks about it.

Devils have achieved heavenly offseason with roster retool

The Cup can neither be won or lost the first week of July, but I dare you to tell me a team in the East that took more strides to lifting the chalice in 11 months than the Devils.

nypost.com

 

[emsomaso]

The states and provinces set their tax rates. Is it Florida's fault that California wants to tax the heck out of people. Gas is $4.89 here and $3.25 in the south. Should the NHL adjust the cap for cost of living? What about cheap housing in a place like St. Louis as compared to Manhattan?

The NHL doesn't need to be in the business of manipulating the cap to suit teams. Then we'll end up with something convoluted like the current US federal tax system where instead of paying a flat rate, people can manipulate the system. While it is an interesting idea in theory, it very quickly becomes unworkable. I just returned from a vacation in Australia. They just cut taxes (their fiscal year ends June 30) to help offset inflation. What if California did that effective January 1? The Kings could have been cap compliant on opening day. But the tax rate goes down and suddenly they are over the cap because their income tax offset goes away. Does Blake have to panic trade players away over the holidays? And, like I said above, if you factor in income taxes then why not property tax and cost of living. The concept gets unwieldy quickly. What if a player gets traded from the Panthers to the Kings? Does his salary get increased? What about the reverse-- does a guy take a pay cut if traded from Canada to Vegas? Why would the NHL want to add complexity related to things they cannot control (i.e. tax rates)? So that they can placate some whiny writers? It is never going to happen. Players already game the tax system getting paid big bonuses rather than salary.

FL/WA/NV/TN/TX didn't cut their tax rates to zero in 2020. The difference has always been there. Yet, the zero tax teams were mostly terrible 2010-2019 while high tax teams in IL, CA, MA, etc were winning Cups.
Last, what about the Canada exit tax and how it kept Tanev north? Chris Tanev on his homecoming with the Maple Leafs: "Winning in Toronto is the ultimate goal"
If a guy plays in Canada for his entire career, then he's got the golden handcuffs on when it comes to picking between a Canadian and US team.

Thank you, appreciate your thoughts in this matter!

 

[emsomaso]

Larry Brooks talks about it.

Devils have achieved heavenly offseason with roster retool

The Cup can neither be won or lost the first week of July, but I dare you to tell me a team in the East that took more strides to lifting the chalice in 11 months than the Devils.

nypost.com

Thank you! Larry Brooks has some really interesting thoughts about this subject:

”If I had only thought to record the call, it would be presented as Exhibit A in the case against addressing the non-state-tax teams’ advantage in the marketplace, but the first sentence from an agent who had just signed a client with one of those clubs was, and I kid you not: “And no state tax!”

It’s become a mockery when no-state-tax Nashville hands out a total of $108.5 million in contracts to Brady Skjei, Steven Stamkos and Jonathan Marchessault within the first hour or two of free agency, and no-tax Tampa Bay sweeps in to outdo Carolina on Jake Guentzel, not that I ever mind the penurious Tom Dundon losing out on a player.

Six teams — the Panthers, Lightning, Golden Knights, Stars, Predators and Kraken — have advantages that 26 other clubs do not. They are exploiting them. Four of the past five Cup champions — Florida, Vegas, Tampa Bay twice — are from no-tax states. Eleven of the past 20 conference finalists have come from no-tax states.

When in the world are these 26 owners going to step up and demand the league level the cap? Or do they sit back and allow these similar types of inequities in the industries in which they made their fortunes?”

Pretty much sums up my thoughts too. Nice to know others also think this situation is messed up!

 

[MiketheKing]

You'd think the remaining 26 GM's would bring this up at their annual meetings. Definitely anti-compete loopholes taken advantage of for full cap advantage.

 

[ICE24]

And people wonder why so many are moving away from these high taxed states. The interesting part is, the people that are moving away from these states have the money. If I’m a player, I would hope these teams that are in these states with low tax or no tax would want me to play for them.

Can you imagine playing in FLA and then being traded to the Kings, you just lost money.

 

[emsomaso]

You'd think the remaining 26 GM's would bring this up at their annual meetings. Definitely anti-compete loopholes taken advantage of for full cap advantage.

And still they don’t, or at least we never hear a word of it which we usually do, that’s what I don’t understand!

 

[symbology]

The company I work for has a new policy for remote workers. Your pay will vary depending on where you live. So, move out of CA and you will probably get a pay cut..

This is a real issue. However, just because teams get more for their $, does not mean they will be cup champs, or even a good team. Just look at this Kings team. Spending close to the cap and they are not very good.

 

[Hipcheck]

I just closed on a house in another state across the country. I love my house here, however, it is time. I will still have a house in the desert so I can come back and stay for a bit, however, I will be selling the home I am in now. As I get older, I want my money to last a bit longer, so I don't have to deal with the CA tax, gas and other expenses living in So Cal. I have lived here all my life, however when I visit the new home, I feel more relaxed. My new neighbor next door told me he paid $133 for electricity last month and he said he had the AC going all month long. I told him, if I didn't have solar, I would be paying $600-700 per month in So Cal in the summer months. BTW, I paid $3.09 for gas.

This here the problem in a nutshell- California is seeing an exodus of people who are producers & tax payers. The state will still have the same bills- but less producers to pay them. You don’t need to be an accountant to see where this ends.