PLD and how I learned to quit worrying about the bomb

[Clif]

Fiala plays with heart. He hits and can hit very well. He gets sticks in lanes and breaks up passes. Bad penalties and turnovers are infuriating, but it’s part of the package with many players as creative as he is. And the fact that he still has his defensive moments as I mentioned is pretty impressive.

 

[jammer06]

 

[Rog or Reg?]

Fiala plays with heart. He hits and can hit very well. He gets sticks in lanes and breaks up passes. Bad penalties and turnovers are infuriating, but it’s part of the package with many players as creative as he is. And the fact that he still has his defensive moments as I mentioned is pretty impressive.

I wholeheartedly agree 100%

Shoot, I'd take half of one Kevin Fiala over two full Pierre Luc Dubois. Yeah, the turnovers and mental lapses and penalties are frustrating, but he plays hard every shift and you can tell he really cares and and is fully invested in the team. And he can actually put the puck in the net.

Meanwhile PLD is skating around like he doesn't have a care in the world. Now that's infuriating.

 

[DryKing]

View attachment 8697

This is good info - what site are you pulling this from?

 

[kingsjohn]

Putting him in the same category as a player like PLD is nonsense.

in context to what doughty was talking about. He has a point

 

[jammer06]

This is good info - what site are you pulling this from?

Thats Doms player card from The Athletic, I'd pull Jfresh's card but i don't think i'm on his substack anymore

 

[LAKingSteve]

This is the buyout this offseason

View attachment 8689

the buyout the offseason after is brutal

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If they are going to buy him out vs finding a trade partner, has to happen now given those numbers. That being said, I don't think there is any way a trade or buyout happens. They will give him through next season to figure it out.

 

[Johnnysuede71]

TRhats why i was suggesting a chg in leadership

This is something I've been espousing for years. Kopitar...while being an excellent player and an 'example' guy...is not...nor has he ever been...leadership material. No disrespect to him but look at the teams Kopitar has captained since Brown (inexplicably) surrendered the C. Two playoff appearances and two first round exits in what will now be 8 SEASONS. Of course it's not all on him....but does a Dustin Brown stand for even one period of this nonsense from guys like PLD or Fiala?? Would Stoll?? Would Justin Williams? Matt Greene?

Yeah...not hardly. In fact I doubt the PLD trade ever goes down if we had more guys like that in the locker room. Players know. They would told Blake and Luc to go 'F' themselves and talked some sense into management. That's the difference. This team has no VOICE.

 

[LAKingSteve]

This is something I've been espousing for years. Kopitar...while being an excellent player and an 'example' guy...is not...nor has he ever been...leadership material. No disrespect to him but look at the teams Kopitar has captained since Brown (inexplicably) surrendered the C. Two playoff appearances and two first round exits in what will now be 8 SEASONS. Of course it's not all on him....but does a Dustin Brown stand for even one period of this nonsense from guys like PLD or Fiala?? Would Stoll?? Would Justin Williams? Matt Greene?

Yeah...not hardly. In fact I doubt the PLD trade ever goes down if we had more guys like that in the locker room. Players know. They would told Blake and Luc to go 'F' themselves and talked some sense into management. That's the difference. This team has no VOICE.

I always find it funny when fans think they know what makes a leader and what goes on in the locker room. I have never heard anyone inside or outside the org (beyond fans) say that Kopi is not a good leader.

 

[Rog or Reg?]

I always find it funny when fans think they know what makes a leader and what goes on in the locker room. I have never heard anyone inside or outside the org (beyond fans) say that Kopi is not a good leader.

100% spot-on.

The only people that know his true leadership qualities are the players in the room, not the fans. Take Jonathan Quick for example. A man of few words and soft-spoken with the media, he didn't appear to have leadership qualities, but from what I understood, has WAS a leader in the room, which is all that matters.

Or to sum it up best: You can't judge a book by its cover. I'm quite sure Kopi wears the 'C' for a good reason.

 

[Johnnysuede71]

I always find it funny when fans think they know what makes a leader and what goes on in the locker room. I have never heard anyone inside or outside the org (beyond fans) say that Kopi is not a good leader.

Well I am always happy to amuse anyone so....you're welcome. As for why one might think as I do....oh I don't know...I guess you point to their complete lack of on-ice success in the post season for going on 8 years after winning two cups in 3 with the previous captain....or how about the fact that a team that starts a season as essentially one of the 3 best teams in the league and then falls off mount Everest to win 3 of the next 17. You can blame it all on Todd Mclellan (and many of you did)...but that room was clearly lost and a complete mess. How much is team leadership responsible for a slide like that on a team loaded with this much talent who are supposed to be contending for a cup? Gee...I'm not sure cuz I'm just a fan....but MAYBE A WEE LITTE BIT?? I'm just spit-balling here and of course I've never been in the locker room....I'm guessing neither have you...but I encourage you to share your opinion with us anyway. At the very least we might 'find it funny' which is always a win-win for us fans here on our fan site where we share our opinions and stuff.

 

[LAKingSteve]

Well I am always happy to amuse anyone so....you're welcome. As for why one might think as I do....oh I don't know...I guess you point to their complete lack of on-ice success in the post season for going on 8 years after winning two cups in 3 with the previous captain....or how about the fact that a team that starts a season as essentially one of the 3 best teams in the league and then falls off mount Everest to win 3 of the next 17. You can blame it all on Todd Mclellan (and many of you did)...but that room was clearly lost and a complete mess. How much is team leadership responsible for a slide like that on a team loaded with this much talent who are supposed to be contending for a cup? Gee...I'm not sure cuz I'm just a fan....but MAYBE A WEE LITTE BIT?? I'm just spit-balling here and of course I've never been in the locker room....I'm guessing neither have you...but I encourage you to share your opinion with us anyway. At the very least we might 'find it funny' which is always a win-win for us fans here on our fan site where we share our opinions and stuff.

If you had been on this page for very long, you'd know that the "Kopi isn't a good captain" is a tired an worn out but often controversial discussion for exactly the reason I said. Whether I've been in the locker room or not isn't relevant as I'm not the one saying he's a good or bad captain. What I'm sharing is the same info that's been shared in the media, that he's anything but a bad leader. Todd raved about him for years. I put zero blame on him for the play on the ice, outside of his own at times. This team's slide, despite having a lot of talent, most likely comes down to Rob building a team that just doesn't mesh well together play-wise (not because of their captain) AND a coaching style that doesn't get the best out of each individual to make them play as a team. Oh, and injuries which are now decimating the team.

I've been critical of Blake for a while now. We fans were sold on "the plan" and we are now at year five of five for said plan. Are they better than they were in years 1-3, absolutely. Are they better than last year? No and the bodies that were brought in (looking at you PLD) were supposed to get us over the hump. But here we are.

All that being said, putting this on Kopi or Doughty's leadership ability feels misguided when it's pretty clear there are much bigger issues than the guys wearing the C or the A. It's just easy to start blaming everyone when something goes wrong.

 

[Johnnysuede71]

100% spot-on.

The only people that know his true leadership qualities are the players in the room, not the fans. Take Jonathan Quick for example. A man of few words and soft-spoken with the media, he didn't appear to have leadership qualities, but from what I understood, has WAS a leader in the room, which is all that matters.

Or to sum it up best: You can't judge a book by its cover. I'm quite sure Kopi wears the 'C' for a good reason.

So forgive my confusion....but to your point...if the only people who really understand a players leadership qualities are 'in the room'....then how are you...or any other fan...able to know anything about how good a leader Jonathan Quick was? How did you come to 'understand' that?

Maybe it had something to so with the product on the ice and the energy that surrounded a very successful team?

I think it's perfectly appropriate to judge this particular book by it's cover. In fact you don't even need the book. Here is an even better cliche: 'The writing is on the wall.'

 

[Pevsfreedom]

Fiala is fine?
How do you not see his horrible turnovers and mental lapses?
And who do you think that Doughty was talking about here?


The consensus was he was talking about Dubois and Fiala

Look at the minus players on the team
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Now look at the plus players
View attachment 8694


One of the sets of players is not like the other

Yet you're comparing Dubois to Fiala. One is not like the other. You have no idea who Doughty was talking about - and he's just trying to get the room fired up I guess, which probably won't work on a bunch of softies anyways. Doughty himself has had a =ton= of horrendous turnovers, leading directly to goals. Fiala is doing exactly what Fiala does - I'd rather have a high skill risk/reward player like him than a doesn't show up Dubois any time. Fiala has some aspects of his game that need work, and he is working on them, and playing a lot better than January, in which every single King besides Byfield was terrible.

 

[LAKingSteve]

So forgive my confusion....but to your point...if the only people who really understand a players leadership qualities are 'in the room'....then how are you...or any other fan...able to know anything about how good a leader Jonathan Quick was? How did you come to 'understand' that?

Maybe it had something to so with the product on the ice and the energy that surrounded a very successful team?

I think it's perfectly appropriate to judge this particular book by it's cover. In fact you don't even need the book. Here is an even better cliche: 'The writing is on the wall.'

Because it was widely shared outside of the locker room, by players, what a great leader Quick was.

 

[Pevsfreedom]

Because it was widely shared outside of the locker room, by players, what a great leader Quick was.

As someone else on another forum stated - it's good Quick was traded as he'd be smacking people around by now. A penultimate leader, who leads by example, and I'm sure words in private.

 

[Johnnysuede71]

If you had been on this page for very long, you'd know that the "Kopi isn't a good captain" is a tired an worn out but often controversial discussion for exactly the reason I said. Whether I've been in the locker room or not isn't relevant as I'm not the one saying he's a good or bad captain. What I'm sharing is the same info that's been shared in the media, that he's anything but a bad leader. Todd raved about him for years. I put zero blame on him for the play on the ice, outside of his own at times. This team's slide, despite having a lot of talent, most likely comes down to Rob building a team that just doesn't mesh well together play-wise (not because of their captain) AND a coaching style that doesn't get the best out of each individual to make them play as a team. Oh, and injuries which are now decimating the team.

I've been critical of Blake for a while now. We fans were sold on "the plan" and we are now at year five of five for said plan. Are they better than they were in years 1-3, absolutely. Are they better than last year? No and the bodies that were brought in (looking at you PLD) were supposed to get us over the hump. But here we are.

All that being said, putting this on Kopi or Doughty's leadership ability feels misguided when it's pretty clear there are much bigger issues than the guys wearing the C or the A. It's just easy to start blaming everyone when something goes wron

If you had been on this page for very long, you'd know that the "Kopi isn't a good captain" is a tired an worn out but often controversial discussion for exactly the reason I said. Whether I've been in the locker room or not isn't relevant as I'm not the one saying he's a good or bad captain. What I'm sharing is the same info that's been shared in the media, that he's anything but a bad leader. Todd raved about him for years. I put zero blame on him for the play on the ice, outside of his own at times. This team's slide, despite having a lot of talent, most likely comes down to Rob building a team that just doesn't mesh well together play-wise (not because of their captain) AND a coaching style that doesn't get the best out of each individual to make them play as a team. Oh, and injuries which are now decimating the team.

I've been critical of Blake for a while now. We fans were sold on "the plan" and we are now at year five of five for said plan. Are they better than they were in years 1-3, absolutely. Are they better than last year? No and the bodies that were brought in (looking at you PLD) were supposed to get us over the hump. But here we are.

All that being said, putting this on Kopi or Doughty's leadership ability feels misguided when it's pretty clear there are much bigger issues than the guys wearing the C or the A. It's just easy to start blaming everyone when something goes wrong.

You're right...I haven't been here long enough to have participated in every conversation about Kopi's effectiveness as a Captain. So I will simply relegate my written opinions to the last 2 months of this current season where there is ample evidence for it to be a relevant topic of conservation yet again I'm afraid to say. Sorry. (And my post was a response to someone else's comment about this apparently very delicate subject. He started it. lol.) Anyway....back to the REAL problem with the team and to get back on subject...PLD!!! YAY!

 

[Johnnysuede71]

As someone else on another forum stated - it's good Quick was traded as he'd be smacking people around by now. A penultimate leader, who leads by example, and I'm sure words in private.

This. Pretty sure this was my original point.

 

[DryKing]

in context to what doughty was talking about. He has a point

View attachment 8699

I'm assuming you are referencing +/- ?

If so, unfortunately quite a few forwards, including HoFers and this Year's All-Stars, have a negative +/-. Look at Jack Hughes, for instance, who has 55 points in 43 games and is a -7. Or Stutzle who has 54 points in 57 games and is a -5. There is no doubt they are each two of the best players on their teams (Jack by far being the best on his team in the case of NJ) yet they have been on the ice for more even strength goals against than for.

In the case of Fiala he also has 22 PP points which we know does not count towards that ratio and doesn't play on the PK. That said, he is actually on the ice for ~15 goals more than goals against (not counting any goals the opposing team scored while Kevin was on the ice during the PP).

Grundy, JAD, Englund, Clarke, Laf and PLD are all actually in the negative when it comes to goals for / against while on the ice (including PP and PK) so this is truly the case in which one on that list is not like the rest.

I believe it was Fox who recently called out that Kevin is the first on the ice and usually one of the last to leave the ice after practice, continually putting in the extra time to try and improve his game. That particular habit is as an example the rest of the team should follow. Additionally all comments by his peers, publicly, have been very positive about Fiala and what he brings to the team. Kempe in particular has given him very high praise, as did McLellan.

In summation, if Doughty was actually trying to point a finger at Fiala (which I realize is a popular belief) then my opinion is that he is mistaken in doing so.

 

[Rog or Reg?]

I'm assuming you are referencing +/- ?

If so, unfortunately quite a few forwards, including HoFers and this Year's All-Stars, have a negative +/-. Look at Jack Hughes, for instance, who has 55 points in 43 games and is a -7. Or Stutzle who has 54 points in 57 games and is a -5. There is no doubt they are each two of the best players on their teams (Jack by far being the best on his team in the case of NJ) yet they have been on the ice for more even strength goals against than for.

In the case of Fiala he also has 22 PP points which we know does not count towards that ratio and doesn't play on the PK. That said, he is actually on the ice for ~15 goals more than goals against (not counting any goals the opposing team scored while Kevin was on the ice during the PP).

Grundy, JAD, Englund, Clarke, Laf and PLD are all actually in the negative when it comes to goals for / against while on the ice (including PP and PK) so this is truly the case in which one on that list is not like the rest.

I believe it was Fox who recently called out that Kevin is the first on the ice and usually one of the last to leave the ice after practice, continually putting in the extra time to try and improve his game. That particular habit is as an example the rest of the team should follow. Additionally all comments by his peers, publicly, have been very positive about Fiala and what he brings to the team. Kempe in particular has given him very high praise, as did McLellan.

In summation, if Doughty was actually trying to point a finger at Fiala (which I realize is a popular belief) then my opinion is that he is mistaken in doing so.

Great post, thanks! Very informative and those numbers are really eye-opening.

Hard to disagree with any of that. Sometimes numbers can indeed be deceiving, especially in hockey. And there's always those intangibles players speak about.

In the case of PLD, it's not just his abysmal plus-minus, it's the eye test, which he fails miserably. He just doesn't appear to be playing with intensity. He certainly appears to have the physical ability; his problem appears to be more above the neck.

Such a shame too. If he played as hard as ssy Fiala or Lizotte, he might be one of the best players in the NHL. But right now he looks more like a figure skater than a hockey player and that's not a good look considering his price tag.