PLD for Kuemper

DryKing said:
Blake is like a stock trader that buys high, sells low, and then buys another stock high again and claims that is correcting his mistake. In reality, though, he lost money, on in this case value, due to a bad investment which he fought against conventional wisdom to buy, and then panicked and listen to others to sell. We shouldn't confuse compounding a mistake with correcting it.

I will agree that Blake is not a bad GM, but he's also not a good one. Currently, in my opinion, he falls somewhere in the lower middle tier - which is sad because prior to last season I would have rated him much higher.
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This is hindsight. Had PLD came in motivated and did his job properly, it could have been a bargain. But it backfired.

It's damn near impossible to build a proper winner without at least some gambling. You can't play it safe 100% of the time. And what experience can bring to a GM the most is a feeling of when and how much to push your luck, for what kind of a player, in order to build a contender. To go after Mike Richards and Justin Williams hard instead of a PLD. But relatively affordable Mikes and Justins are few and far between...and some people think they grow on trees.
 
What is interesting is Cap reporters and selling this as PLD is going to be their first line center. Sounds like very similar stories/lies we heard last year.

Good luck with that Caps, good luck to you PLD.
 
symbology said:
What is interesting is Cap reporters and selling this as PLD is going to be their first line center. Sounds like very similar stories/lies we heard last year.

Good luck with that Caps, good luck to you PLD.
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The Caps were 28th in goals scored last season. Their forward depth is atrocious. They will never rebuild while Ovechkin is on the roster so they had to take a chance on a young forward reclaiming his past production. If they believe Dubois is really the ~30 goal guy and not the 16 goal guy he was in LA then he’s worth the risk and the team has every incentive to feed him 1st line minutes because, believe it or not, his scoring rate per minute of ice time in LA was very similar to his scoring rate while in Columbus.

The trade really was the perfect example of trade me your plate of garbage for your bag of dog poo.
 
Statue4Deano said:
The Caps were 28th in goals scored last season. Their forward depth is atrocious. They will never rebuild while Ovechkin is on the roster so they had to take a chance on a young forward reclaiming his past production. If they believe Dubois is really the ~30 goal guy and not the 16 goal guy he was in LA then he’s worth the risk and the team has every incentive to feed him 1st line minutes because, believe it or not, his scoring rate per minute of ice time in LA was very similar to his scoring rate while in Columbus.

The trade really was the perfect example of trade me your plate of garbage for your bag of dog poo.
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I think it was his 4th year in the league he gets benched, then traded. Not sure how his ride was for the Jets, but it was inconsistent from all reports. His first year on the Kings he ends up playing on the 4th line. Stuck on the 4th line at times in his 8th year in the league while making 8.5mil. I just think that the Caps folks need to reset their expectations. He was not looked at as being a savior for the Kings, just a piece. He could not even accomplish that.

Maybe if they give him the reigns and make him 1C he will be motivated? Yeah, who am I kidding.
 
Bollocks said:
This is hindsight. Had PLD came in motivated and did his job properly, it could have been a bargain. But it backfired.

It's damn near impossible to build a proper winner without at least some gambling. You can't play it safe 100% of the time. And what experience can bring to a GM the most is a feeling of when and how much to push your luck, for what kind of a player, in order to build a contender. To go after Mike Richards and Justin Williams hard instead of a PLD. But relatively affordable Mikes and Justins are few and far between...and some people think they grow on trees.
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But really, we saw how he acted in Columbus and Winnipeg and yet still paid him the mother load hoping that we could change his attitude. A bad attitude with not one but two teams but yet we still thought we could be the one to change his attitude...... :fpalm:
 
SloMo26 said:
But really, we saw how he acted in Columbus and Winnipeg and yet still paid him the mother load hoping that we could change his attitude. A bad attitude with not one but two teams but yet we still thought we could be the one to change his attitude...... :fpalm:
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Believe it or not, change of scenery type of career revivals/jumpstarts are not that rare.

I've said it before - a psych evaluation specialist having an interview with a player before a trade/signing would make a lot of sense. I have a feeling it would be a huge no-no from NHLPA standpoint, though, so...yeah. Good luck with that.

I firmly believe GMs options regarding these things are VERY limited and boil down to the judgement of team's scouting staff and intel from decently reliable sources (ex teammates, coaches - mostly from juniors which can be a very different experience vs. a matured head already in the NHL)...and intel from media hearsay and rumors and drama and what not. And believe you me, GM believing the latter too much won't make it very far in his career...

Let's just say the Kings' staff grain of salt was too big in the case of PLD.

Ironically, I can see Gabe having similar issues down the road, along with his injury problems...but again, that would be hindsight. What I would find very problematic is if Rob did not think and discussed about alternatives - trading Vilardi for a different player - and instead focused solely on PLD. But I doubt that is true and in the end we will never know that for sure.

In the end it's all about whether or not you want to stay reasonably positive with whatever is not about to change no matter what you do as a fan (Rob being the Kings' GM), or if you'd rather mull over the depths of his mistakes and find all kinds of ways to paint Rob as a walking disaster...or try to enjoy this ride, however bumpy it is at times. Fact is - DL scenarios where a GM comes in, gets free reign to rebuild the team from the ground up and then ends up winning a Cup (let alone 2) in less than a decade are so-friggin-rare.

It took Oilers so many years of rebuilding and retooling until they ended up with 2 of the best offensive talents of the past decade, and even then they almost got swept by Florida this year, but then managed to bounce back through what almost seems like a divine intervention...
 
Bollocks said:
Believe it or not, change of scenery type of career revivals/jumpstarts are not that rare.

I've said it before - a psych evaluation specialist having an interview with a player before a trade/signing would make a lot of sense. I have a feeling it would be a huge no-no from NHLPA standpoint, though, so...yeah. Good luck with that.

I firmly believe GMs options regarding these things are VERY limited and boil down to the judgement of team's scouting staff and intel from decently reliable sources (ex teammates, coaches - mostly from juniors which can be a very different experience vs. a matured head already in the NHL)...and intel from media hearsay and rumors and drama and what not. And believe you me, GM believing the latter too much won't make it very far in his career...

Let's just say the Kings' staff grain of salt was too big in the case of PLD.

Ironically, I can see Gabe having similar issues down the road, along with his injury problems...but again, that would be hindsight. What I would find very problematic is if Rob did not think and discussed about alternatives - trading Vilardi for a different player - and instead focused solely on PLD. But I doubt that is true and in the end we will never know that for sure.

In the end it's all about whether or not you want to stay reasonably positive with whatever is not about to change no matter what you do as a fan (Rob being the Kings' GM), or if you'd rather mull over the depths of his mistakes and find all kinds of ways to paint Rob as a walking disaster...or try to enjoy this ride, however bumpy it is at times. Fact is - DL scenarios where a GM comes in, gets free reign to rebuild the team from the ground up and then ends up winning a Cup (let alone 2) in less than a decade are so-friggin-rare.

It took Oilers so many years of rebuilding and retooling until they ended up with 2 of the best offensive talents of the past decade, and even then they almost got swept by Florida this year, but then managed to bounce back through what almost seems like a divine intervention...
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I still stand behind I think the PLD contract will be a good one in the end. What I would be curious about is why Blake, and team, decided to part ways with him after one season. Conventional wisdom told us PLD would have similar struggles in LA that he had in Columbus and Winnipeg so I would think the Kings were willing to accept this up front (that also includes playing under par his first season with a new team). Compound that with the fact that we buried him in the lineup and didn't give him PP1 time and we should expect him numbers to slip as a result. Why Blake chose to suddenly turn ship and trade PLD for a goalie being paid started money who was relegated to backup tells me something changed in the mindset of management (and it wasn't PLDs point totals which were the primary driver). I like Kuemper, but to me this is a deal to get out of a bad contract sooner than later while temporarily filling a need in goal.

I'd respect Blake's decision making more had he stuck to what originally caused the Kings to go all in on PLD and made it work (still thinking the deal will turn out well in the future).

I do agree with your point on psych evals - probably the best the Kings could do is have someone with high emotional intelligence interview the player before making an offer (where scenarios allow). Interestingly, Hiller appears to have a high emotional intelligence so I wonder if he saw something Blake, Luc and Bergevin did not which played a role in the trade.
 
DryKing said:
I still stand behind I think the PLD contract will be a good one in the end. What I would be curious about is why Blake, and team, decided to part ways with him after one season. Conventional wisdom told us PLD would have similar struggles in LA that he had in Columbus and Winnipeg so I would think the Kings were willing to accept this up front (that also includes playing under par his first season with a new team). Compound that with the fact that we buried him in the lineup and didn't give him PP1 time and we should expect him numbers to slip as a result. Why Blake chose to suddenly turn ship and trade PLD for a goalie being paid started money who was relegated to backup tells me something changed in the mindset of management (and it wasn't PLDs point totals which were the primary driver). I like Kuemper, but to me this is a deal to get out of a bad contract sooner than later while temporarily filling a need in goal.

I'd respect Blake's decision making more had he stuck to what originally caused the Kings to go all in on PLD and made it work (still thinking the deal will turn out well in the future).

I do agree with your point on psych evals - probably the best the Kings could do is have someone with high emotional intelligence interview the player before making an offer (where scenarios allow). Interestingly, Hiller appears to have a high emotional intelligence so I wonder if he saw something Blake, Luc and Bergevin did not which played a role in the trade.
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It's a curious decision indeed. I agree Hiller's insight might have been a contributing factor here in combination with a need for more cap space, which could be used in many ways (resigning Arvidsson, resigning Roy, signing a better 3rd pairing LD, signing a meaner and more hard working, but less talented winger etc.). Maybe they think the young guys (Turcotte, Thomas, maybe even Fagemo) have enough in them to play full-time in the top 9.

I can see Rob just taking the opportunity to get out of the mess of a big question mark that looms over PLD's head. I guess that makes some things about planning future roster easier, while potentially fixing the goalie position for a couple of years while at it. While Kuemper indeed didn't have a very good season with the Caps, that team is quite meh and both Talbot and Rittich significantly improved their numbers with the Kings compared to their similar-to-Kuemper lacklustre seasons before joining them, so I'm not worried about that at all. Goalie underperforming is not a problem for the Kings (ever since Quick and Cal got traded, heh), and not even Bobrovsky can stop the Oilers anymore, so...

This trade could end up working well enough for both teams in the end. I just hope this cap space isn't used to overpay Roy...
 
Bollocks said:
It's a curious decision indeed. I agree Hiller's insight might have been a contributing factor here in combination with a need for more cap space, which could be used in many ways (resigning Arvidsson, resigning Roy, signing a better 3rd pairing LD, signing a meaner and more hard working, but less talented winger etc.). Maybe they think the young guys (Turcotte, Thomas, maybe even Fagemo) have enough in them to play full-time in the top 9.

I can see Rob just taking the opportunity to get out of the mess of a big question mark that looms over PLD's head. I guess that makes some things about planning future roster easier, while potentially fixing the goalie position for a couple of years while at it. While Kuemper indeed didn't have a very good season with the Caps, that team is quite meh and both Talbot and Rittich significantly improved their numbers with the Kings compared to their similar-to-Kuemper lacklustre seasons before joining them, so I'm not worried about that at all. Goalie underperforming is not a problem for the Kings (ever since Quick and Cal got traded, heh), and not even Bobrovsky can stop the Oilers anymore, so...

This trade could end up working well enough for both teams in the end. I just hope this cap space isn't used to overpay Roy...
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Totally agree, if Kuemper can play anywhere near the level he did when he was with the Kings last time then he will end up being the best goaltender we've had in quite awhile (not counting Quick).

I also agree with your hope that Blake uses the cap space well. If we can sign or trade for a significant piece as a result then that definitely makes the trade even more worthwhile. Would really like to add a goal scorer like Guentzel (which is probably the way Blake can best remediate his previous mistake with the PLD acquisition). Let's hope he doesn't blow it by just signing the same players we had last year, for more money this contract (RFAs etc excluded).
 
PLD plays in spurts, he can look great for a brief stint and then for 50 minutes look disinterested, and that's him. So far 3 GM's have bet on him to change, those same 3 GM's have traded him away. I don't begrudge the player because that is who he is. We all know, you can't change a person after marriage, so stop trying.
 
DryKing said:
I still stand behind I think the PLD contract will be a good one in the end. What I would be curious about is why Blake, and team, decided to part ways with him after one season. Conventional wisdom told us PLD would have similar struggles in LA that he had in Columbus and Winnipeg so I would think the Kings were willing to accept this up front (that also includes playing under par his first season with a new team). Compound that with the fact that we buried him in the lineup and didn't give him PP1 time and we should expect him numbers to slip as a result. Why Blake chose to suddenly turn ship and trade PLD for a goalie being paid started money who was relegated to backup tells me something changed in the mindset of management (and it wasn't PLDs point totals which were the primary driver). I like Kuemper, but to me this is a deal to get out of a bad contract sooner than later while temporarily filling a need in goal.

I'd respect Blake's decision making more had he stuck to what originally caused the Kings to go all in on PLD and made it work (still thinking the deal will turn out well in the future).

I do agree with your point on psych evals - probably the best the Kings could do is have someone with high emotional intelligence interview the player before making an offer (where scenarios allow). Interestingly, Hiller appears to have a high emotional intelligence so I wonder if he saw something Blake, Luc and Bergevin did not which played a role in the trade.
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consider the fact that both McClellan and Hiller did everything they could to get him going, and he still mostly loafed around. Ultimately, i think the Kings realized they'd be putting in more effort than the return, and likely the relationship soured as well. Blake had to fire his coach, his guy... And ultimately, the team looked to have regressed a bit.

I can see the arguments for and against, but i think taken as a whole, the worry there that you're going to be dealing with the same core issue is something you don't want to have to do for 8 yrs. The guy lacks competitive spirit, and some nights looked like he didnt even like playing hockey. For a team that's identified that very issue as lacking, i think you just have to move on.

He may put up better numbers than he did here, in fact it would be hard to imagine things getting any worse, but he' snot leading any team anywhere, and they need that from him.
 
TooCool said:
How many of these has he done by now? Like 4? haha
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He looks so happy, almost like a spite smile. He has to realize this is his
absolute last stop in the NHL.

The whole point of bringing him in to feed Ovechkin is a major point of question because he has to do all the work to set OV up. Based on his past lukewarm commitment and effort, it should be interesting.

I wonder if being paired with Ovechkin, with his demanding, aggresive temperament might be actually what PLD needs? Time will tell...
 
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