Superman v Batman/DC movies

  • Thread starter Thread starter NastiMarvasti
  • Start date Start date
NastiMarvasti said:
And another thing I thought was stupid. Jor-El beats the crap out of Zod. I thought the dude was a General.
Click to expand...

The handling of Jor El, I thought, was one of the more lazily handled elements of this movie.

Yes they managed to turn Jor El into a "BAD ASS!!!" but that not only contradicts the character that we're all sort of subconsciously aware that he is (more on that in a moment) but it also completely contradicts who we're told he would have to be by virtue of genetic implanting or whatever they wanted to call it.

Now... you might say "but Doc... he and Lara (who was inexplicably cast by someone with a strong foreign accent) were rebels! They had a child outside the birthing kelp forrest! Of course he would be the kind of guy to acquire Bas Assery skills!"

Well to you I would say "Show me that's who he is then". Don't just have him jumping off of CGI buildings and swimming amid fetal matrix tubes and riding CGI beasts around an apocalyptic background. Give me some idea of who he is as a man other than just "Superman's Bad Ass Dad!". Cut just a few minutes of CGI mind pulping action that establishes early and often that there are no stakes other than the ones we're all programmed to anticipate (spoiler alert : Krypton dies). Let's see Jor El fighting with the council about stuff for more than like... 5 seconds. Let's see some consequences of his actions on his life that would have continued had Krypton not gone boom.

Or maybe they did show it and I just couldn't concentrate on it because Zod instantly shows up and now there's clearly a relationship between he and Jor El that we are told about but don't really get to see.

More examples of this movie just telling us "Trust us you guys..... this moment is really super important. You don't have to feel it or be shown any evidence of it... just trust us. This is bad ass."

And this is where we revisit the idea of our subconscious recognition of these characters and tropes.

Superman is 75 years old. That's like.... old and ****. And he's been depicted in TV shows, comics, movies, novels, cartoons, mugs, clothes, references, commercials....
EVERYBODY knows the basics of Superman.

Born on Krypton. Scientist dad builds rocket. Puts kid in it. Krypton explodes.
Smallville. Kansas.
Metropolos. Lois Lane.
Punching.
Cape.
Red Undies outside.

All of that is hardwired into our cultural awareness of Superman. This movie didn't do anything with Perry White or the Daily Planet... but the were in there because we all know who/what they are and it makes it feel more like a Supeman movie to us and this movie leans on that heavily.

FOR EXAMPLE.............. I don't remember but does Man of Steel ever explicitly tell us who Jor El is? What his responsibilities are? How does he fit into the Kryptonian world? What's his title?

None of these questions are addressed by the filmmakers with any kind of detail because A) more punching and B) we all know who Jor El is at some level so why bother wasting time on exposition or character development.
 
Generals issue orders from a desk. Meh. Jor-El was a scientist man...a scientist. And a tree hugger and a pacifist. You know he got his ass kicked as a kid.


Um...and Russell Crowe.

Really man, have you never seen South Park.
 
jerseydevil said:
Generals issue orders from a desk. Meh. Jor-El was a scientist man...a scientist. And a tree hugger and a pacifist. You know he got his ass kicked as a kid.


Um...and Russell Crowe.

Really man, have you never seen South Park.
Click to expand...

I'm just sayin.....

Casting Kevin Costner was a genius play too. They didn't really have to have Pa Kent do much (even though they could and should have) because most of us adults come into the movie with Field of Dreams tucked into our subconscious and teenagers don't care about boring **** like consistency or character development.
 
btw...Nasti...how easy is it, at this juncture, for Nolan to take a 'hindsight is 20/20' view. Now, since the critiques have hit...he is divorcing himself from the decision making process. Meanwhile, his name is still prominently featured and I am sure he has a few checks deposited. It's asinine to sit there and say...'oh he had misgivings and did not sign off on this'. C'mon...you are a tremendously smart cat. And yet you are buying into his 'back towards the door' retreat.
 
i saw it last night. im far from a superman buff, so i don't know squat about the ins and outs about the story line. but i do work in advertising and the 7-Eleven, IHOP, SEARS and Nikon brand placement was really over the top...especially the 7-Eleven.
 
beedee said:
i saw it last night. im far from a superman buff, so i don't know squat about the ins and outs about the story line. but i do work in advertising and the 7-Eleven, IHOP, SEARS and Nikon brand placement was really over the top...especially the 7-Eleven.
Click to expand...

You know it's funny... I didn't even notice the 7-11 stuff.

But IHOP? IHOP gets a name check AND tons of logo placement. Like... Pete ****ing Ross... A GODDAMNED CHARACTER FROM SUPERMAN CANNON.... SUPERMANS BEST CHILDHOOD BUDDY works at IHOP.

He's not his best friend anymore.... he's a god damned IHOP employee.

Given that they had Steve Lombard in the stupid movie I'm surprised we didn't see Lana Lang in a Sears vest at some point.
 
jerseydevil said:
btw...Nasti...how easy is it, at this juncture, for Nolan to take a 'hindsight is 20/20' view. Now, since the critiques have hit...he is divorcing himself from the decision making process. Meanwhile, his name is still prominently featured and I am sure he has a few checks deposited. It's asinine to sit there and say...'oh he had misgivings and did not sign off on this'. C'mon...you are a tremendously smart cat. And yet you are buying into his 'back towards the door' retreat.
Click to expand...

Underdevelopment and too much action are pretty much the opposite critiques of Nolan's movies though. That and the fact that he's been saying he's had no input after the treatment since production. I doubt the guy is that much of a douche to throw others under the bus when his movies fail.
 
is it bad when I connect more with the characters in Monsters U than I do with the characters in Man of Steel?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok, so... I saw it this weekend.

I'll avoid specifics because I feel like they've been covered fairly well, but I think this movie had about three things going for it. Special effects, the cast and the score (yeah, Zimmer fan boy here, **** you).

Everything else was lacking for me.

It felt a lot like the recent Tron movie to me. It looked ****ing amazing. The big fight sequences at the end of the film are among the best I've ever seen, as far as CGI goes. I was completely mouth-agape in awe of how cool all the explosions and falling buildings and fighter jets dodging **** looked.

The cast was great. They could have been given more to work with, sure, but I think everyone nailed their parts fairly well for the most part, even with limited/no character development. Cavill himself was excellent, and I think he'll be a fine actor for the character going forward.

But everything else... man. I'm sorry, I just could not get over Superman's clear disregard for everyone else while he's throwing Zod through buildings and ****. Amongst all the nit-pickings we could cover all week long, this is the one that gets me the most. Maybe that's because my preconceived notions of Superman are getting in the way. I can forgive a lot, but that is a hard pill to swallow.
 
Yeah, fanboy or no...that music was pretty kickass. Gonna pick up the s/t, been listening to it on spotify. BTW, the WWZ music(Beltrami I think) was also particularly good. All in all this summer has started off strong in the theater at least as far as I am concerned. Whatever it's faults MOS was entertaining, This is the End...hilarious, WWZ...surprisingly tense. I have Lone Ranger marked as the FAIL of the summer. Something about it, whether it's western, yet another relaunch of a character nobody can connect to anymore, Johnny Depp's Red-face act, etc. We shall see.
 
jerseydevil said:
Yeah, fanboy or no...that music was pretty kickass. Gonna pick up the s/t, been listening to it on spotify. BTW, the WWZ music(Beltrami I think) was also particularly good. All in all this summer has started off strong in the theater at least as far as I am concerned. Whatever it's faults MOS was entertaining, This is the End...hilarious, WWZ...surprisingly tense. I have Lone Ranger marked as the FAIL of the summer. Something about it, whether it's western, yet another relaunch of a character nobody can connect to anymore, Johnny Depp's Red-face act, etc. We shall see.
Click to expand...

Johnny Depp and Robert Downey Jr are in the same category for me. Extremely talented and likable actors who have grown addicted to the paycheck.
 
NastiMarvasti said:
Johnny Depp and Robert Downey Jr are in the same category for me. Extremely talented and likable actors who have grown addicted to the paycheck.
Click to expand...

I dunno...thats a bit harsh. Actors have to strike while the iron is hot. I think both of them take some jobs to pay the bills for some of the movies that they WANT to do. Until their names alone aren't enough to get a movie greenlit, every director/producer is going to want to use them to get their movies made. I think Depp was part of the impetus for Lone Ranger...he wanted to play the part and is working with Verbinski who he clearly enjoys working with. RDJ...well, part of me still thinks that he works to keep himself out of trouble. It's hard to begrudge either of them. They have earned the right to make 'paycheck' movies if they want to.
 
adgy-san said:
It felt a lot like the recent Tron movie to me.
Click to expand...

ah-ha.jpg
 
I really don't like Max Landis.

EDIT : Having said that... He's not wrong.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Now Chirping

Share this page

Back
Top