The Comic Books and Comic Book movies thread

If you wait until everyone isn't bothered by change

a) you'll be waiting a hell of a long time
b) when the change finally comes, it won't matter


I get that your childhood Iron Man or Spiderman or whoever were white guys, man. But giving these titles a new perspective has value. Maybe you don't like it, but there're kids and adults of color, or girls/women, or LGBTQ kids who see these characters and see themselves in these stories now. And it means to them what seeing a nerdy kid be a hero meant to tons of kids way back when.

You and the people complaining had your run, man. You're gonna be fine. Let others have their moments. I know you think it's just a money grab or pandering or whatever. But you say that from a position where your needs have already been served.

And what's more, these are new stories. New voices. Who the f*** cares if we see ANOTHER Peter Parker/Mary Jane/Doc Oc/Green Goblin story told the same way. The basic set up is the same, but where it goes from there, the perspective can be different. And, again, that has value bigger than sales.

Besides, even if that's the reason for dropping sales (and there's some debating that), why the hell could an executive SAY that and NOT expect any blowback?
 
You misunderstand. I'm not knocking diversity. But you can't force change. The market has responded to Marvel's over correction with disinterest. Meaning that all the folks you want to include are not interested. Say what you want about what caused dropping sales. And your core fans stop buying because THEY feel excluded. Don't they deserve inclusion? Or, because they have been the standard for so long, do they deserve to be punished?
Gail Simone, for years has been gradually introducing lgbtq characters into mainstream books at DC for years. Marvel basically retooled everything to create some serious United Colors Of Benetton diversity, and they overestimated the audience, while underestimating their core. Diversity should not create exclusion. Otherwise, what's the point?

Your argument that us male white hetero folks have had our way for so long...so basically '**** all y'all'...isn't really very diverse is it?
 
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I don't think there's a "right" way to introduce more diversity in comic books. I do think it's a good thing to do it.

This is only a story because the exec said the completely wrong thing that does nothing to help anybody except himself.
 
jerseydevil said:
Marvel basically retooled everything to create some serious United Colors Of Benetton diversity, and they overestimated the audience, while underestimating their core. Diversity should not create exclusion. Otherwise, what's the point?

Your argument that us male white hetero folks have had our way for so long...so basically '**** all y'all'...isn't really very diverse is it?
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And your argument is... there're a lot of white dudes reading comics that don't like too many people of color in their entertainment, so companies should not add too much to appease them? I dunno about you, but for me, that thinking falls along the side of the spectrum where someone would say "A lot of people are uncomfortable with it, so let's just keep both sets of water fountains and bathrooms so we don't upset anyone."



And you're tellin' me that there aren't anymore white dude super heroes out there? And aren't all of these stories temporary anyway? I mean, I don't read or buy any of this particular stuff, but I'm on enough sites to get an idea of what's going on, but not all the details.

Like, okay. Sam Wilson is the current Captain America. But at some point, won't a non-Hydra Steve Rogers be back?

The girl that's Iron Heart or whatever. Does Tony Stark still exist in that universe?

Lady Thor took over for the normal guy for a while, right? And really, you expect him to be back, right?

We have a new Peter Parker movie coming out in a few months. Is Spider Gwen gonna keep everyone from seeing that one? Or the fact that Peter's friends are the types of students you might ACTUALLY find in a NY city high school?




Ultimately, my point is not "f*** all y'all." At least, not completely.

My point is that I would hope that you can get by with having the vast majority of a thing instead of the complete ownership, while others who had virtually nothing finally get a small piece of the whole. And probably for a relatively little while.
 
darby said:
And your argument is... there're a lot of white dudes reading comics that don't like too many people of color in their entertainment, so companies should not add too much to appease them? I dunno about you, but for me, that thinking falls along the side of the spectrum where someone would say "A lot of people are uncomfortable with it, so let's just keep both sets of water fountains and bathrooms so we don't upset anyone."
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See. And that's why we can't have nice things. You immediately take any kind of pushback from LONG TIME fans, and more importantly CUSTOMERS, as some kind of white privilege/Aryan Nation rascism. So...Company A panders to their core audience forever(notice my use of the word pander in regards to young white males), and then, because 'every life matters' said company swings the pendulum the other way AT THE EXPENSE of that audience. Not being inclusive and trying to add to readership, but taking major properties and retrofitting them in order to sell more product...Marvel isn't doing this out of a need to make the world a better place, with us all holding hands and singing kumbayah.

I really resent that anytime I speak about something I grew up with getting altered mainly for the sake of sales, I get the pseudo WHITE power comments. It's no different than when they remake a movie. These are BELOVED memories from my childhood. Things that are clearly important to me. I don't begrudge inclusion. I just think it's hypocritical when it comes at someone else's expense. And I don't think you can change perception overnight. Miles Morales was embraced by the masses. Because it was a good story and it wasn't just for the sake of being compliant with whatever group felt left out. But when you present a core audience with, what can be perceived as a hostile takeover, you are going to get a strong reaction. When I was a kid, I was an outcast. Comics were my refuge. So I understand inclusion. But I also believe that there are a lot of kids who are like me...white kids can be outcasts too. But, forget about them...because all lives matter...but not equally. Like I said, there are examples of change that were done organically. Sometimes it just feels like Marvel isn't interested in telling the best story...they just hire a ________(fill in the blank with whatever group feels disrespected) writer and tells them to use the template. That's the change I don't care for. I just don't get why you have to subtract to add.
 
You know why Marvel sales are lagging? Because my generation finally got out of our mother's basement and gotten a life. mhihi: :manybeers:
 
Not to bang the drum too hard, but since there is a discussion here, how about this...

If I were to dress as an Indian for Halloween(which I did as a child) that is called 'cultural appropriation', is it not?*

Yet, when I am asked to forfeit characters that I grew up with...being as I remember them, it's called 'diversity'. Somehow, what I consider the closest thing to a 'culture' that I identify with, is not subject to the same protections because I share a skin color and gender with the 'evil ruling class'...which I have never had the luxury of benefitting from. Meaning I came from a poor to middle class, broken family and had a lonely childhood where I felt odd and misfit despite my skin color.



*and I am talking about this in the traditional sense. Meaning I dressed as a native american, not a 'chief wahoo'
 
By the way...Orph, just because you have your own entrance/exit...that don't mean you moved out of your mom's basement.
 
jerseydevil said:
Cable Creator Liefeld Draws Josh Brolin as Deadpool 2?s Co-Star
http://www.cbr.com/cable-creator-li...-Distribution&utm_campaign=CBR-FB-P&view=list
Click to expand...

Well, it's not as bad as it could've been. mhihi:

4_medium.jpg
 
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