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Statue4Deano
Lurker
What's wrong with the defense?
2022 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter HeadInjury
- Start date
What's wrong with the defense?
W
What party?
Lurker
What in the actual eff? I feel like I'm being gaslit. This board has been bitching, BITCHING about defense for three plus years and now has become content? Bananas.
My issue is that without the shame of being left off of the Team Canada roster Doughty will not be as motivated to perform (and we've all been a witness to an unmotivated *cough -38* Drew) above and beyond. Coupled with his current age and now, injury issues which are to be expected (read:management should have a plan for his absence). Walker missing a whole calendar year to injury is not concerning? Brave. And correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the rest of the defensive roster look like boys against men last year? And all the Kings' did was to let Maata go?
uzzle:If someone wants to blind me with numbers that is fine and will absolutely take a look but...we have an issue with defense. Ask Cal Petersen, which some would argue had his job performance affected due to this issue. Hmmm..where did I read that ? Oh, yeah, here.
Aside: Thinking of changing my avatar to this:
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santiclaws
I was in the pool!!
Seriously????? It's both too old and too young. It's about as intimidating as the Sisters of Mercy, which deficiency goes nicely with being one of the worst teams in the NHL in terms of defensemen generating scoring, or any sort of offense really. Doughty is getting old. Edler is slightly younger than Methuselah and has the mobility of a tree, yet the Kings felt the need to bring him back because he's better than whatever else they've got on the left side after Anderson. Bjornfot regressed last season. There are no other decent defensive prospects on the left side. Durzi, for all of the welcome energy and feistiness he brought, has the defensive awareness of a potato and his shot wouldn't brake a pane of glass. Roy and Walker are serviceable, but nothing more than that and despite having considerably more experience than Durzi, their defensive instincts are not much better than his. Despite this, Walker is probably going to start the season on the left side because again, there aren't better options.
The defense needs more scoring, more decent breakout passes, more speed, more toughness, and more defensive awareness. There are no indications that the current group is able to provide any of the above. To summarize, they're soft, offensively terrible and defensively mediocre. Other than that, the defense is fantastic.
W
What party?
Lurker
Heh. We've got a very Bob Miller and Jim Fox energy today. I'm absolutely the color commentary. Now, which one of us would accidentally (on purpose) mispronounce Esa Pirnes name, tough to call.
Bollocks
Super Star
The goal for next season isn't to go "all in" on competing because as you correctly guessed, trading for Tkachuk will not make the Kings competitive against the Tampa, let alone the Avs. So, yes, it will cause waves but in the end it would be moot. We have just finished a season where the Kings overachieved by reaching the playoffs. We're not ready to compete.
And as much as some people think it's a really good time to splash for another expensive forward, there are probably at least 10 other teams that are thinking along the same lines, so price is going to be steep.
And we can't afford it either. Not before Kopitar is off the books.
So no matter which way you look at it, we're not there yet. Let's wait until the Avs reach the cap trouble...which they will. And let's wait and see if we will have some young and cheap budding stars ready for that compete window where you have them locked in cheap.
And if at least 2 don't develop into elite players, it's all going to be moot, too.
(Well, in the end it's all moot because I'm 99% sure he doesn't want to come here...but OK, for the sake of the argument...)
PS: if you haven't noticed, the Kings traded for and signed Fiala. THAT was the splash on offense that was sensible. Not yet prohibitively expensive, trade was not at all an overpayment, wants to be here, on the upswing of his career, not a headcase. If there are further moves to be made it has to be on defense, where DD is STILL the guy by quite a BIG margin (whereas on offense, it's quite clear Kopitar has quite a few that can keep up with him already - also when it comes to excellent two way hockey in Danault).
See, you're putting way too much hope into that 2nd pairing. It's only solid, and IF DD slows down in a noticeable way (let alone gets injured long term again) the Kings are completely screwed. They have no one that can drive the play even close to DD.
And it's also super important to get some load off of DD in order to preserve him. Just like Kopitar. It's pointless to run them into the ground at this point. The reward for that simply doesn't exist.
Exactly. I'd be looking for an upgrade on defense much sooner than offense, where we actually face an excess of NHL talent.
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drums4dmf
Lurker
Yeah I was hoping Blake added a solid LHD. Santiclaws is right, we’re in this unique stage where the d core is old (DD/Edler) and really young (Spence/Durzi/TB). I like the potential of the kids but we’re going to see more growing pains the next couple of seasons..
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Statue4Deano
Lurker
Yet the Kings made the Playoffs, allowed the 2nd fewest shots per game, the 9th fewest goals per game and pushed the Oilers to game 7 in spite of Doughty missing a big part of the regular season and the entire post season. Maybe a blueline unit that was held together with scotch tape and bubble gum deserves a tiny bit of credit?
I think there's a reason Blake has used his most valuable trade assets two offseasons in a row to bolster the top end of the forward group instead of the blueline. Anderson and Bjornfot are 22 and 20 years old with well over 100 regular season NHL games under their belt. Regardless of how Bjornfot "regressed" consider the fact that the guy isn't even of legal drinking age. He's not regressing, he's still developing as is Anderson. It's very likely those two are the 1st and 2nd pairing left D for the next 5+ seasons. Matt Roy isn't just serviceable. He's dependable. Every playoff contender has a defenseman like Roy because they're reliable and usually cheap. Along with Doughty, we're talking about 4 defensemen who would dress for every team in the league. Now spots 5, 6 and 7 could use some stability and that's exactly why you bring back Edler on a one year deal. Then you let a couple more homegrown players fill the other two slots because they're cheap and because the organization needs to see who they should be holding on to and who they should cut bait on.
Is the blueline in over their heads some nights? Absolutely. Is it missing certain key elements? Unquestionably. So is every single other blueline in the NHL. Did you happen to miss that Jack Johnson was playing 3rd pairing minutes for the Avs in the Cup Finals?
If the Kings aren't in win now mode then they need to feed the kids more NHL minutes on the blueline. I like the approach Blake has taken with his defense. Let the kids cook and keep picking defensive prospects who project to have NHL quality skills even if they are right shot.
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Statue4Deano
Lurker
Tkachuk traded to Florida.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/flames-trade-star-matthew-tkachuk-to-the-panthers/
Hell of a haul for Calgary. Not sure what Florida is thinking with this move but it's fun to see a genuine blockbuster trade is still possible!
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/flames-trade-star-matthew-tkachuk-to-the-panthers/
Hell of a haul for Calgary. Not sure what Florida is thinking with this move but it's fun to see a genuine blockbuster trade is still possible!
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jom
Lurker
Florida got a guy who is FIVE years younger. That is a good deal for them....assuming MK resigns for a good number of years.
jom
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Statue4Deano
Lurker
And what about MacKenzie Weegar? The guy plays 23 minutes a night and was the #2 scoring Dman on the Panther last year with 44 points. Florida gave up a 100 point winger and their #2 defenseman AND a 1st round draft pick. Plus a kid who projects to a useful bottom six forward.
That's a lot. Even for Tkachuk.
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Ice24
Lurker
I will give my expert analysis of the trade after next season is completed. Stay tuned.
DryKing
Power Forward
Totally agree but I suspect Florida wins this trade long term considering they locked up Tkachuk for 8 years and badly were in need of some grit. Huberdeau is a UFA after the season (I wouldn't be surprised if Florida knows something here they aren't sharing) and both he and Weegar under performed in the playoffs.
If Calgary can lock up Hub though it truly is an impressive haul for them (especially if they can hit on the 2025 draft pick).
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Illegal_Stick
Lurker
This. Blake's stating that the team needed a Chycrun type has left everyone thinking that the D is a mess and it isn't. It's not perfect and would Chycrun help? Of course, but the biggest issues we faced weren't on D and while everyone SAYS it, I don't think everyone stops to really think about what it means to not have Drew Doughty - your best defenseman (if not player) BY FAR out of the lineup.
That's remarkably close to the deal with FLA for HYFY%YD.
Bollocks
Super Star
I think it's you who doesn't stop and think what it means to have so much burden on one player...
The Kings, if they want to have a serious shot at the Cup in the following couple of years, desperately need a #2 defenseman that can carry the 2nd pairing and - if DD gets injured - the 1st one.
You remove DD and you're left with very sub-par D-corps.
santiclaws
I was in the pool!!
Anderson (23 not 22) is not in the conversation as he's already one of the best shutdown defensemen in the NHL. Doughty is Doughty. The first pairing is fine for now, except that Doughty's minutes need to come down but they can't because of the chasm between him and the next-best right defenseman they've got, that being Roy. As for Roy being "dependable," you can depend on him to put the puck on the tape of the opposing team's player in his own zone 2-3 times every single game. He doesn't read the play well in his own zone and is pretty useless in the offensive zone. There's just nothing he does particularly well. I very much doubt he'll ever get better at his age. He's not a top 4 guy, he should be on the third paring because he needs his minutes managed and he needs to play against lesser competition, but he's playing top 4 minutes because the Kings don't have a choice at the moment.
As for "4 defensemen who would dress for every team in the league," that's just utterly ludicrous. Did you forget that Bjornfot (21 not 20) was a healthy scratch for the last 10 games or so of the regular season and didn't play a minute in the playoffs? He's likely going to start the season in Ontario, and will have Walker, who isn't very good even on his natural side, playing on his off side on the left on the second pairing because they still prefer him to Bjornfot. So I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other teams for which Bjornfot wouldn't dress either. He's got talent, but he's not a 2nd-pairing NHL defenseman right now. That's what I meant by the defense being "too young."
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Clif
Super Star
Appreciate it but I don’t think it’s that close. Kempe and AI being locked up for a bit is one thing though. If one or both of Huberdeau and Weegar come to camp unsigned it will be quite the ride for Flames fans’ nerves.
Maybe Sutter can scare them off from extending. Do it Darryl!
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Illegal_Stick
Lurker
I think it's you who doesn't stop and think what it means to have so much burden on one player...
The Kings, if they want to have a serious shot at the Cup in the following couple of years, desperately need a #2 defenseman that can carry the 2nd pairing and - if DD gets injured - the 1st one.
You remove DD and you're left with very sub-par D-corps.
Except that the D played great without him. By that logic we should have had brutal defense since so much relies on Doughty. We need stronger second pair D imo. We may already have them but likely we will need to bring someone in (or have a yet untested prospect surprise us.) I’m simply stating the need for a top pair d was not nearly the same need as offensive help.
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Yog S'loth
Lurker
I haven't been able to log into HF since they rebooted everything and turned it into a bug-infested swamp.
Hi.
Hi.
Helvetica
Top Forward
even if they cant lock these guys up, the haul is still good. Bare minimum on Huberdeau at the deadline has got to be a 1st + top prospect. Weegar would likely be a 2nd at minimum. I could see both of them getting more than what i listed. But at bare minimum, that's 2 1st's, 2 prospects, and a 2nd. That's excellent return, with the flexibility of extending both and maintaining status as a playoff team, or trading both and getting solid return in picks and prospects. Calgary did really well here.