Attn: Rob Blake

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On the one hand, I always thought Byfield was the right pick. On the other, even though we had heard Stutzle would be ready faster, I don’t think anyone thought he would be THIS good. And if you haven’t watched him, he doesn’t dog it on D either. Overall, you are right, you go for the big Center, but if it continues to go this way - almost showing signs - then Byfield will be a winger himself permanently.

At the time, the Kings' core center was Kopitar, and only Kopitar, and their future at C looked like a (at the time) broken Vilardi and JAD.

I know, I know...it should be a BPA. But AT THE TIME, there was no clear-cut BPA...so they took something that worked before (having a big powerful center as a franchise cornerstone).

Since then, the Kings signed Danault and some other players emerged as good centers...if Byfield turns into a versatile top line power forward center/winger, so be it.


But I think it's absolutely nonsensical to say "RB should be fired due to this pick" because, well...his overall track record while drafting is very good. Top picks are much less about scouting and much more about luck, as crazy as that sounds. The top picks are talked about the entire league, the entire league's scouts...they're as known of a quantity as they can be.
 
Cozens is another big center whose development makes me less worried about Byfield. Cozens is a year older than Byfield and this is his breakout season. I read several threads early last season where Buffalo fans called him a bust and talked about how they should have drafted other players. Fast forward a year and these comments looks pretty stupid today.

Agreed, I think the thing Buffalo did right with Cozens is continuing to give him quality minutes from day one. The same cannot be said for Thompson who, for the first few seasons, was used pretty sparingly much like Byfield. Best thing the Kings have done for Byfield is to move him to the top line and start giving him decent minutes.



Why do people keep saying Stutzle is small? He's 6', 187lbs. He'll probably be around 200 by his mid-twenties. Right around the size of Dustin Brown. Was he a small fast winger? He's a very, very special player. Byfield is a very big player but I've yet to see obvious signs that he's a very special one. I thought the Kings should have taken Stutzle because he's always looked special. I hope I'm wrong, but I think they may have made a big mistake.

Stutzle is also a special -53 over three seasons and a team worst -27 last season. Offense is great but not so great if you are giving up that many goals on the ice than you, or your team, are scoring. Simply put, he probably would have spent more time in the AHL if on the Kings and wouldn't have gotten top line minutes (including PP) for the majority of his career to this point. I do think he is very good and continues to grow, but let's face it we always knew he was going to be a better scorer than Byfield - however Byfield has always projected to be a better overall player.

I'll agree with you that Byfield doesn't always look special when watching him play, unless you look at all the little things he does on the ice and intangibles he brings. Even if you didn't watch him while in the OHL, 82 points in 45 games is pretty damn special.
 
When the Kings don't play well, it's "Fire Rob".

When the Kings play well, it's "Fire Rob because our top picks are not superstars".

Hindsight, people...hindsight.

To be clear, I am absolutely NOT blaming RB, the Kings, or the scouting staff for making these picks. I’m pretty sure every other NHL team in the league would have also taken Turcotte at 5th overall and QB at 2 overall. The blame will fall solely on the players themselves for not living up to expectation, should that be the way it pans out. With such a large investment on the kings behalf, there comes a massive expectation on these players to excel.
 
On the one hand, I always thought Byfield was the right pick. On the other, even though we had heard Stutzle would be ready faster, I don’t think anyone thought he would be THIS good. And if you haven’t watched him, he doesn’t dog it on D either. Overall, you are right, you go for the big Center, but if it continues to go this way - almost showing signs - then Byfield will be a winger himself permanently.

I actually disagree with this. I think Byfield MUST be a center because he NEEDS the puck. He is big, fast, and can stick handle, but his instincts away from the puck seem terrible. Never in the right spot, always seems to be chasing the play, etc. He will need to lug the mail, draw the attention of opposing defenders, create his own opportunities/shots, or distribute to guys who can actually finish. Luc Robitaille, he is -certainly- not. If he DID have that innate high level hockey instinct, we would be looking at an Eric Staal or Malkin-lite level scorer.
 
Agreed, I think the thing Buffalo did right with Cozens is continuing to give him quality minutes from day one. The same cannot be said for Thompson who, for the first few seasons, was used pretty sparingly much like Byfield. Best thing the Kings have done for Byfield is to move him to the top line and start giving him decent minutes.





Stutzle is also a special -53 over three seasons and a team worst -27 last season. Offense is great but not so great if you are giving up that many goals on the ice than you, or your team, are scoring. Simply put, he probably would have spent more time in the AHL if on the Kings and wouldn't have gotten top line minutes (including PP) for the majority of his career to this point. I do think he is very good and continues to grow, but let's face it we always knew he was going to be a better scorer than Byfield - however Byfield has always projected to be a better overall player.

I'll agree with you that Byfield doesn't always look special when watching him play, unless you look at all the little things he does on the ice and intangibles he brings. Even if you didn't watch him while in the OHL, 82 points in 45 games is pretty damn special.

Don’t be daft, with the -53 comment. That’s purely because he gets lots of ice time on a team that has been terrible for seasons running now. Basically a mess of trial by fire with an extremely youthful roster. If he played for Tampa, Vegas, Carolina or Boston he’d be +15 this season. Even Connor McJesus is only +2 this season. Hell, I’m sure he’s basically have the same stat line as Fiala if he were playing for us this season. The plus/minus stat is more of an overall indicator of team play, except in cases where a player might be an extreme outlier that runs in opposition to the rest of his teammates.
 
Stutzle is also a special -53 over three seasons and a team worst -27 last season. Offense is great but not so great if you are giving up that many goals on the ice than you, or your team, are scoring. Simply put, he probably would have spent more time in the AHL if on the Kings and wouldn't have gotten top line minutes (including PP) for the majority of his career to this point. I do think he is very good and continues to grow, but let's face it we always knew he was going to be a better scorer than Byfield - however Byfield has always projected to be a better overall player.

I'll agree with you that Byfield doesn't always look special when watching him play, unless you look at all the little things he does on the ice and intangibles he brings. Even if you didn't watch him while in the OHL, 82 points in 45 games is pretty damn special.

Stutzle >> Byfield no ifs ands or buts. Intangibles is a cop out argument. Stutzle does a ton of intangibles too. He didn't just fake his way into a $8M AAV contract based upon scoring stats alone.

Why my eye test has indicated is Stutzle is a special player who drives play and makes some amazing plays. Byfield has all the tools but has not shown me anything special. I've been underwhelmed by his shot and there are times when he takes the puck behind the net or into the corner and he seems to have no master plan for what he is going to do to create a scoring chance. Byfield needs a mentorship from Fiala on how to drive play in the offensive zone. Byfield was supposed to have a higher ceiling but right now his overall game is less than the sum of the parts.
 
At the time, the Kings' core center was Kopitar, and only Kopitar, and their future at C looked like a (at the time) broken Vilardi and JAD.

I know, I know...it should be a BPA. But AT THE TIME, there was no clear-cut BPA...so they took something that worked before (having a big powerful center as a franchise cornerstone).

Since then, the Kings signed Danault and some other players emerged as good centers...if Byfield turns into a versatile top line power forward center/winger, so be it.


But I think it's absolutely nonsensical to say "RB should be fired due to this pick" because, well...his overall track record while drafting is very good. Top picks are much less about scouting and much more about luck, as crazy as that sounds. The top picks are talked about the entire league, the entire league's scouts...they're as known of a quantity as they can be.

Always take the best player available, and just trade away the guy you previously drafted who isn’t as good as his new replacement.

RB has done an amazing job at making sneaky under the radar type FA signings(Danault), astute trades(Arvy/Moore/Durzi), or combinations thereof(Fiala). I am hoping he continues to build a solid overall team by moving some of our RHD overflow, because it’s this type of management that has made the team so competitive again so quickly quickly. Especially since our draft picks from the rebuild have essentially been a non-factor, across the board.
 
Don’t be daft, with the -53 comment. That’s purely because he gets lots of ice time on a team that has been terrible for seasons running now. Basically a mess of trial by fire with an extremely youthful roster. If he played for Tampa, Vegas, Carolina or Boston he’d be +15 this season. Even Connor McJesus is only +2 this season. Hell, I’m sure he’s basically have the same stat line as Fiala if he were playing for us this season. The plus/minus stat is more of an overall indicator of team play, except in cases where a player might be an extreme outlier that runs in opposition to the rest of his teammates.

Ok, let's keep it real. Stutzle averaged the 11th most ice time last season the team and was a whopping -27, with the next worst +/- by a forward (-18) coming from a player who amassed 18 points to Stutzle's 58. It doesn't take a genius to tell that's not great. Kevin Fiala was a +23 and 7th best on his team in that regard. You argument is totally illogical (or daft, if you prefer) that a player with the worst +/- on the team suddenly matches Fiala this season if on the same team...the sound argument would be that he is more likely to have to worst +/- this season on the Kings based off his performance last season.
 
Stutzle >> Byfield no ifs ands or buts. Intangibles is a cop out argument. Stutzle does a ton of intangibles too. He didn't just fake his way into a $8M AAV contract based upon scoring stats alone.

Why my eye test has indicated is Stutzle is a special player who drives play and makes some amazing plays. Byfield has all the tools but has not shown me anything special. I've been underwhelmed by his shot and there are times when he takes the puck behind the net or into the corner and he seems to have no master plan for what he is going to do to create a scoring chance. Byfield needs a mentorship from Fiala on how to drive play in the offensive zone. Byfield was supposed to have a higher ceiling but right now his overall game is less than the sum of the parts.

No one has said Stutzle isn't outperforming Byfield as of today, that's pretty basic to see. Byfield was drafted as a project, and to this point hasn't had the same opportunity to develop as Stutzle has in the NHL. Part of that is due to Byfield personally, part is due to the Kings development style, and part of it is due to Stutzle walking onto a p*ss poor team and being able to log top minutes from the start.

I get we all want instant gratification in today's world, but sometime you just need to exercise some patience and look a bit deeper than an "eye test"
 
I get we all want instant gratification in today's world, but sometime you just need to exercise some patience and look a bit deeper than an "eye test"
Patience is not the problem. Usually with top tier players who are slow developers the issue is consistency. They still wow you with plays occasionally. Byfield simply doesn't. I have no doubt he's going to be a solid NHL player, but you don't draft solid NHL players NO. 2
 
Patience is not the problem. Usually with top tier players who are slow developers the issue is consistency. They still wow you with plays occasionally. Byfield simply doesn't. I have no doubt he's going to be a solid NHL player, but you don't draft solid NHL players NO. 2

I agree, you hope a 2nd overall hits the ground running but it's not always the case (even with 1st overall draft picks). That said, you can also run into an Elias Lindholm situation in which the player is drafted, spends 5 average seasons with a team then on season 6, with a new team, becomes a star. Or look at Lafreniere who has a slow start to his career and in his 3rd season, as the first overall pick, is already rumored to be in the trading block. Kakko, 2nd overall in 2019, in another example and you can't say he does not have the "wow" factor.

Maybe Laf and Kakko turn into stars, or maybe they fizzle. My point simply is that there is no one path when it comes to development, or set timing. Some players start fast and fizzle just as fast while others have a slow burn to greatness. There is no crystal ball.
 
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No one has said Stutzle isn't outperforming Byfield as of today, that's pretty basic to see. Byfield was drafted as a project, and to this point hasn't had the same opportunity to develop as Stutzle has in the NHL. Part of that is due to Byfield personally, part is due to the Kings development style, and part of it is due to Stutzle walking onto a p*ss poor team and being able to log top minutes from the start.

I get we all want instant gratification in today's world, but sometime you just need to exercise some patience and look a bit deeper than an "eye test"

I don't know what the heck you are trying to say in the last paragraph but the eye test, the stats test, the cap space allotted test, and practically every other metric scream that Stutzle is the better player. The _only_ hope the Kings have is that QB is a late bloomer and we need to be patient.

Realistically though, take off the Kings-colored glasses. You're delusional if you think Byfield is > Stutzle or even has a credible chance to be as good. Only one of the 2 players a PPG guy who will be making 8.5 million dollars. There's instant gratification and then there's at least playing up to your draft position. Stutzle competes hard on defense now and does all the same "intangibles" that you referenced. Byfield is a guy who, right now, the whole is less than the sum of the parts. He has the size and raw skills but hasn't put it together. Even in Ontario, QB hasn't been a PPG player until this season. Meanwhile Stutzle has become a joy to watch because he's so gifted and this year he's been logging a bunch of PK time to go along with his regular shifts on the PP and 5on5. He's a complete, point per game forward. He's already a known quantity who is establishing himself as a top-line forward. Byfield is still a prospect who has yet to exhibit anything of significance at the NHL level. Don't forget that developmentally, Byfield benefitted from the COVID year. He got to basically log a full season of pro hockey in Ontario with limited NHL exposure rather than stagnating in the CHL like Hickey and other unlucky Kings prospects.
 
I don't know what the heck you are trying to say in the last paragraph but the eye test, the stats test, the cap space allotted test, and practically every other metric scream that Stutzle is the better player. The _only_ hope the Kings have is that QB is a late bloomer and we need to be patient.

Realistically though, take off the Kings-colored glasses. You're delusional if you think Byfield is > Stutzle or even has a credible chance to be as good. Only one of the 2 players a PPG guy who will be making 8.5 million dollars. There's instant gratification and then there's at least playing up to your draft position. Stutzle competes hard on defense now and does all the same "intangibles" that you referenced. Byfield is a guy who, right now, the whole is less than the sum of the parts. He has the size and raw skills but hasn't put it together. Even in Ontario, QB hasn't been a PPG player until this season. Meanwhile Stutzle has become a joy to watch because he's so gifted and this year he's been logging a bunch of PK time to go along with his regular shifts on the PP and 5on5. He's a complete, point per game forward. He's already a known quantity who is establishing himself as a top-line forward. Byfield is still a prospect who has yet to exhibit anything of significance at the NHL level. Don't forget that developmentally, Byfield benefitted from the COVID year. He got to basically log a full season of pro hockey in Ontario with limited NHL exposure rather than stagnating in the CHL like Hickey and other unlucky Kings prospects.

Bro, I don't know what you are failing to comprehend when I say that Byfield projects to be the more complete player - to spell it out for you, that means future state over the course of his career. I've already said Stutzle is outperforming Byfield as of today, and guess what - he was projected to do so when he was drafted as he was seen as NHL ready prior to the draft while Byfield was viewed as a project. Shocker alert, those projections were correct.

How much money someone is making today, or how fun they are to watch really have no merit in this discussion as the money equates to current state and the fun factor equates to your opinion. Also to say Byfield benefited from the covid era is the most ludicrous thought ever. Yes he got to play in the AHL early, but guess what he also lost of a ton of development time as a result of league shutdowns. You take a player who was already seen as a project, then stunt his growth through a pandemic (not even factoring in the injury) and wonder why he isn't scoring 40 goals a game? Come on bro...

Byfield is projected by experts, not you or me, to hit his peak at, or around, age 22. Currently Byfield is 20 and seen, again by experts and Kings staff, to be on track.
 
I think while we understood that Byfield required more work than Stutzle - two things have happened. 1) Stutzle has turned out to be far better than expected - and I don't care what his plus/minus says, I've watched him and he's out there on the PK and showing defensive responsibility. 2) Byfield is not showing the signs that some of you claim he is - he shows signs of almost doing stuff a lot, that's not where we should be at this point. None of this means Byfield is a bust, but it does mean that he could be. I'm glad that he's learning from Kopitar and Kempe and hope that makes a difference, and as someone said hopefully this is the Tage model. It certainly could be. If he does turn out to bust then you have to start looking at the scouts etc and asking why they didn't choose the sure thing (and I was ALL for Byfield.) Also, in fairness, the "sure thing" number one pick in the draft looks like a bust. So far, Sens scouts did a hell of a job in that top five, that much I know.
 
The stutzle argument seems pretty petty. You can say all you want that a potential top three pick was supposed to be special but the reality is the top three went in order as expected by virtually every pundit. The media always hems and haws a bit to create drama but non of them were expecting Byfield to fall to 3. By all that the kings picked who they should have, the BPA at the slot. The Turcotte pick might be more contentious since someone did change things up there. The Hawks were widely expected to take Turcotte at 4, when they took Dach people were legitimately surprised. The Kings taking Turcotte at 5 only needs to be examined from the standpoint of how confident were they that they had done their due diligence for an asset that might not have been available. Lets face it, when you're drafting high you might do a bit of work on the number 1 but are you really focusing efforts there? We won't really ever know if the Kings were settled on Dach if the hawks took Turcotte, but the fact that he was a Chicago product and they didn't take him should have set off some alarm bells. I also highly doubt that the plan was ever to take Mortiz at 5 had the Hawks taken Turcotte. In any case I'm glad that the front office has woken up on a few things:

1) Sending Clarke back to Jrs, the kid needs ice time in games. The mistakes he made at the WJC were catastrophic and clearly of the "I'm better than these guys/doing too much" variety. Simply put he was chomping at the bit to put on a show. He needs that feeling of 3 games in 4 days week after week after week.

2) Letting Cal percolate in the A. Copley may or may not be the answer, but letting Cal work through some serious cycles down in the A the best bet at salvaging his game. If he's still down there in March I won't consider it the end of the world, unless the wheels come off the Copley bandwagon.

3) Byfield on the wing, with Kupari and others taking that 3/4th line center role. Lizotte for as much as I love his spunk needs to be our 4th line leader. That third line needs to be functional and we have players ahead of Byfields current ability for the role. If this was a non contending team I'd say go nuts with Byfield, but there are expectations and that doesn't allow the time or the situational deployments he would need.

With the power play actually adding goals and stats to the players lines this year I think its going to be a lot easier to stomach Kopi's crew playing 18 minutes and basically being even at 5s. Getting Fiala away from that and letting him go nuts in less minutes is probably the right answer. Danaults the line that will need to be our general difference maker to get us those 5v5 breathing room goals. Now if they could only shore up that PK. I'm telling you I think the problem is structural and I hope they use this 4 day break coming up to implement the personel that can play the structure they're trying, or to adjust it to the people they're playing. I don't think they're almost there with what they've got at all.
 
I think while we understood that Byfield required more work than Stutzle - two things have happened. 1) Stutzle has turned out to be far better than expected - and I don't care what his plus/minus says, I've watched him and he's out there on the PK and showing defensive responsibility. 2) Byfield is not showing the signs that some of you claim he is - he shows signs of almost doing stuff a lot, that's not where we should be at this point. None of this means Byfield is a bust, but it does mean that he could be. I'm glad that he's learning from Kopitar and Kempe and hope that makes a difference, and as someone said hopefully this is the Tage model. It certainly could be. If he does turn out to bust then you have to start looking at the scouts etc and asking why they didn't choose the sure thing (and I was ALL for Byfield.) Also, in fairness, the "sure thing" number one pick in the draft looks like a bust. So far, Sens scouts did a hell of a job in that top five, that much I know.

If the Kings had chosen Stutzle, do you believe they still would have added Fiala and Arvidsson? I see the current hole in the Kings roster at 3C. Lizotte, as much as we love him, is still a placeholder in the top 9.
 
Currently Byfield is 20 and seen, again by experts and Kings staff, to be on track.

We don't know what the Kings staff actually think regardless of what they say in public, and I'm not necessarily a big believer in "experts," but I haven't seen an expert opinion which says he's fine. All the ones I've seen say he's been disappointing. . Again, I'm not saying he can't blossom into a dominant 1st line center, but the odds are getting longer by the day. If he's supposed to hit his peak at 22, he's not demonstrating enough at 20. He's not showing the ability to dominate the game for any period of time, no matter how short, and in two years he's supposed to be able to do that game after game? Not impossible, but signs that he can do it are simply not there. All we have is blind hope that he can. That is extremely worrying.
 
I see the current hole in the Kings roster at 3C. Lizotte, as much as we love him, is still a placeholder in the top 9.

This has been the biggest forward hold up I've had all season. Its like a replay of Iafallo on the top line. Love the guy, he's a tremendous player, but for success in the playoffs he's gotta be 2-3rd line. Same with Lizotte, let him go nuts for 6 minutes on 5v5, fill in on the PK and or those oddball shifts out of special teams where you need someone to put in 20 seconds to reset everything. Todd needs to allow an avenue for other players to be able to force Lizotte into that deployment.
 
The stutzle argument seems pretty petty. You can say all you want that a potential top three pick was supposed to be special but the reality is the top three went in order as expected by virtually every pundit. The media always hems and haws a bit to create drama but non of them were expecting Byfield to fall to 3. By all that the kings picked who they should have, the BPA at the slot. The Turcotte pick might be more contentious since someone did change things up there. The Hawks were widely expected to take Turcotte at 4, when they took Dach people were legitimately surprised. The Kings taking Turcotte at 5 only needs to be examined from the standpoint of how confident were they that they had done their due diligence for an asset that might not have been available. Lets face it, when you're drafting high you might do a bit of work on the number 1 but are you really focusing efforts there? We won't really ever know if the Kings were settled on Dach if the hawks took Turcotte, but the fact that he was a Chicago product and they didn't take him should have set off some alarm bells. I also highly doubt that the plan was ever to take Mortiz at 5 had the Hawks taken Turcotte. In any case I'm glad that the front office has woken up on a few things:

1) Sending Clarke back to Jrs, the kid needs ice time in games. The mistakes he made at the WJC were catastrophic and clearly of the "I'm better than these guys/doing too much" variety. Simply put he was chomping at the bit to put on a show. He needs that feeling of 3 games in 4 days week after week after week.

2) Letting Cal percolate in the A. Copley may or may not be the answer, but letting Cal work through some serious cycles down in the A the best bet at salvaging his game. If he's still down there in March I won't consider it the end of the world, unless the wheels come off the Copley bandwagon.

3) Byfield on the wing, with Kupari and others taking that 3/4th line center role. Lizotte for as much as I love his spunk needs to be our 4th line leader. That third line needs to be functional and we have players ahead of Byfields current ability for the role. If this was a non contending team I'd say go nuts with Byfield, but there are expectations and that doesn't allow the time or the situational deployments he would need.

With the power play actually adding goals and stats to the players lines this year I think its going to be a lot easier to stomach Kopi's crew playing 18 minutes and basically being even at 5s. Getting Fiala away from that and letting him go nuts in less minutes is probably the right answer. Danaults the line that will need to be our general difference maker to get us those 5v5 breathing room goals. Now if they could only shore up that PK. I'm telling you I think the problem is structural and I hope they use this 4 day break coming up to implement the personel that can play the structure they're trying, or to adjust it to the people they're playing. I don't think they're almost there with what they've got at all.

Guess I'm remembering wrong because I definitely remember that it was a debate between the two players and it was - one is ready, one isn't, but could be very special. Again, I would've chosen the latter and got why they did. I hope Byfield turns out, but as others have said, I'm not seeing a lot - I'm seeing - almost doing something on the way to something great. Again, the consensus number one pick is RIGHT NOW a bust and that could go either way also. I'm simply saying the Sens drafted two players in the top five and we'd take either right now. Is that not correct? Maybe it's because I'm in the Ottawa bubble - but they project that LHD as a future captain 1-2 Dman.

And look - AGAIN, you can't tell with prospects, so maybe it's unfair for me to point fingers at scouts, I guess the thing that is surprising me is that so many of Kings fans are claiming that everything is great with QB and on track when it clearly isn't. It still might be fine, it still might be great, but if this is exactly where you expected him now, then I am truly shocked.

As for your points 1-3, totally agree on all.
 
If the Kings had chosen Stutzle, do you believe they still would have added Fiala and Arvidsson? I see the current hole in the Kings roster at 3C. Lizotte, as much as we love him, is still a placeholder in the top 9.

Yeah but isn't that just - draft the best player available - not the player who may fill a need? The argument towards not adding Fiala is yeah, but then they may not have added Fiala -because there wouldn't have been that glaring need. That's a good thing no? Fill the need internally, then move on to the next need?

Just to be clear again, I like Byfield, I want him to succeed, I still kinda think he will - I'm just a little concerned with where he's currently at and am surprised so many are not.
 
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