Elliotte Friedman: Chychrun May Be Available

[hokiecat]

Lundell, Knight and a 1st

Wow, AZ should take that offer.

 

[emsomaso]

Lundell, Knight and a 1st

If that really is a legit offer, Arizona should take it and run!!

 

[jt]

I'm still not sold on him but he's had a strong February so far - if Blake is going to make a move for him it seems like the time to do it as he is trending up. I wouldn't give up as much as you have listed in the trade package idea to get him, however, but we could lose those players and still be fine given how other prospects currently stuck in the AHL have grown.

Whatever we do, we need to start thinning the herd.

Yeah, it's not "urgent" since they can thin the heard at the draft by trading Walker, Roy, Durzi, or whoever. But they have to move people before opening night 2022-23 or they risk losing players on waivers for nothing, and some of them they probably really don't want to lose. Just for starters, assuming Doughty, Anderson, and Bjornfot don't go anywhere, these are D subject to waivers for sure, I'm not sure if I'm missing anyone: Roy, Walker, Durzi, Wolanin, Moverare, Strand, and Noisiainen. And that assumes they don't bring in a stabilizing veteran like Edler who would also be subject to waivers.

Each of these offers is too much. For these packages I expect more of a sure thing. Also the Kings are not winning a cup this year. I say they add via trade next year.

Nobody wants to do this be they need to focus on the rebuild. Trade Drew and Quick while there is still a chance. I would trade Kopi too but don?t think he is movable.

Use the compiled assets to make your trades.

For more of a sure thing that isn't close to enough. Can you name a comparable trade for more of a sure thing that cost as little as that?

Hasn't Florida's reported offer put this deal out of reach? Time to start dealing some of our very talented right shot guys to a team short on RD for either a LD who isn't such a bright shiny object or a scoring forward.

Wow, AZ should take that offer.

If that really is a legit offer, Arizona should take it and run!!

Yeah, that's why I think it isn't a legit offer. If it was, Chychrun would be in Florida already.

Also, GMs have relationships fans don't know about. I've listed to Doug MacLean and Brian Burke talk about it. GMs do favors for each other and it's entirely possible Florida doesn't really want Chychrun but Zito (Florida GM) and Armstrong (Coyotes GM) know each other so Zito put it out in the press that he's willing to trade Knight and Lundell when he isn't really. Or maybe when Zito was an agent, Blake pissed him off so he's doing this. I have no inside info specificaly on any of these types of relationships, just want ex GMs have talked about.

 

[jammer06]

Pretty sure that most teams know how to be patient with these deals. I'm still firmly adamant that it would be a foolish trade if Blake includes any of our LD in any deal for Chycrun. I also believe they can get to the finish line with 3 assets instead of 4.
I really think if they were to go 4 items

Clarke, Alex Turcotte, a first round pick and a second round pick,

is preferable to

Turcotte, Bjornfot, and two firsts?

The grade of the 1st vs the 2nd is immaterial to me, Toby is the nonstarter in that deal.

If there is a 4th asset in the deal I want something back too. Even if its a 4th round pick or something.

 

[santiclaws]

Pretty sure that most teams know how to be patient with these deals. I'm still firmly adamant that it would be a foolish trade if Blake includes any of our LD in any deal for Chycrun. I also believe they can get to the finish line with 3 assets instead of 4.
I really think if they were to go 4 items
is preferable to
The grade of the 1st vs the 2nd is immaterial to me, Toby is the nonstarter in that deal.

If there is a 4th asset in the deal I want something back too. Even if its a 4th round pick or something.

I would trade Toby before Clarke every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Clarke is unproven, but his ceiling is much, much higher.

 

[jt]

I would trade Toby before Clarke every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Clarke is unproven, but his ceiling is much, much higher.

Yeah but the problem is that they have so few LD that if you trade TB and then have an injury, you're playing Moverare or some other LD who isn't very good. Of you're moving a RD to LD, which isn't a good long-term solution unless it's a really unique RD.

And as much as his ceiling is much higher (and it is), Hudson Fasching's had a higher ceiling than most of their prospects when he got traded...and then he flopped. It's a risk to trade a guy with Clarke's potential, but potential alone isn't a reason to not trade him. TB has PROVEN he's an NHL D. Clarke has A LOT to prove...I keep going back to why the hell was he left off the WJC team? With all the skill he has, they didn't want him.

 

[HeadInjury]

It makes no sense to trade Tobi. If a trade requires him or Clarke or Byfield, you just pass.

If we are trading a defenseman, it should be from the right side where we have an abundance.

Chychrun isn't our only trade option and while I want an upgrade, it isn't critical that we make a move this season.

 

[jammer06]

I would trade Toby before Clarke every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Clarke is unproven, but his ceiling is much, much higher.

His ceiling is very divisive as JT pointed out. Pronman had him as a possible 2-4. Nobody wants to peg him as a number one. The caveat in all this is Blake has to think JC is his guy. If they're not evaluating him that way then none of these proposals make sense. If they are evaluating him that way then Clarke is an easy price to pay in a future vs now (accelerated window) concept. Mikey and Toby are still both really young and expected to improve from within, same with Durzi. Roy and Walker are known commodities at this point and very much placeholders. You get in JC (again assuming he's your 3-4 stud) on the left side and things are expected to improve year over year with Mikey, Toby and Durzi and you still have Grans/Faber knocking on the doorstep. I'm not even getting into the players that are on the outside looking in but older.

 

[santiclaws]

Yeah but the problem is that they have so few LD that if you trade TB and then have an injury, you're playing Moverare or some other LD who isn't very good. Of you're moving a RD to LD, which isn't a good long-term solution unless it's a really unique RD.

And as much as his ceiling is much higher (and it is), Hudson Fasching's had a higher ceiling than most of their prospects when he got traded...and then he flopped. It's a risk to trade a guy with Clarke's potential, but potential alone isn't a reason to not trade him. TB has PROVEN he's an NHL D. Clarke has A LOT to prove...I keep going back to why the hell was he left off the WJC team? With all the skill he has, they didn't want him.

Toby is not that difficult to replace. A top-end offensive D is very difficult to find; a run-of-the mill D is not as difficult to find and the Kings have plenty of assets available to trade. We've talked about the need to start getting rid of some of them, and that's how I'd use them. I'd rather the Kings swing for the fences.

I'm not very concerned about Clarke being left off the WJC team. Plenty of Canadian players have been left off WJC teams and went on to be very good NHL players. Clarke wasn't going to be on the first D pairing and the coach wanted more defensive-minded players in the second and third pairing. And coaches have favorites and sometimes just make mistakes.

 

[jammer06]

TheAthletic did another "who says no" with NHL Execs. The trade they considered seems to be below what we are all talking about getting it done:

3. Chychrun to Los Angeles for Gabriel Vilardi, Lias Andersson, Tobias Bjornfot, and 2022 second- and third-round picks. — Tyler W.

Exec: Arizona says no.

Pronman: Vilardi and Andersson’s stocks are not very high at the moment although Vilardi has been quite good in the AHL of late. Talking to NHL personnel, I don’t get the sense either can be core pieces of a deal. Bjornfot is more intriguing because there are more NHL believers, but L.A. would probably need to throw in another more enticing piece.

Who says no? NHL executives evaluate your trade proposals for Chychrun, Giroux, Hertl and others

The executives are definitely more familiar with the east coast/Canadian teams based on their comments but overall its a fun read. I think most of us here would take the trade that was proposed, which means it was a bad proposal.

 

[VCRW]

It makes no sense to trade Tobi. If a trade requires him or Clarke or Byfield, you just pass.

If we are trading a defenseman, it should be from the right side where we have an abundance.

Chychrun isn't our only trade option and while I want an upgrade, it isn't critical that we make a move this season.

After strongly supporting the quest for Chychrun, I have lately arrived at your same position/conclusions. Florida recently escalated the stakes to ridiculous. This deal may yet bypass ludicrous and go straight to plaid. Better to find a more suitable trading partner. If Clarke is as ready advertised, does he not make Durzi, Faber, Spence, Roy and/or Walker potentially available to headline a swap for an LD? There is also something to be said for going forward with the current guys (plus Edler) and having them experience the fight for a playoff spot. And if the Kings actually make the playoffs, wouldn't that only enhance the value of the RD guys who have been on the roster?

 

[jom]

The latest rumor I heard was that the Yotes are really looking for players who are willing to play their home games in a glorified bowling alley the next 3 years. If they don't get that they pass.

jom

 

[jammer06]

The latest rumor I heard was that the Yotes are really looking for players who are willing to play their home games in a glorified bowling alley the next 3 years. If they don't get that they pass.

jom

So they're not gonna trade Kessel?

 

[Clif]

The latest rumor I heard was that the Yotes are really looking for players who are willing to play their home games in a glorified bowling alley the next 3 years. If they don't get that they pass.

jom

Where’s Derek Armstrong when you need him?

 

[What party?]

So they're not gonna trade Kessel?

ASU has everything he needs.

 

[jt]

Toby is not that difficult to replace. A top-end offensive D is very difficult to find; a run-of-the mill D is not as difficult to find and the Kings have plenty of assets available to trade. We've talked about the need to start getting rid of some of them, and that's how I'd use them. I'd rather the Kings swing for the fences.

Maybe. But Blake has had an awfully hard time filling out the LD.

I'm not very concerned about Clarke being left off the WJC team. Plenty of Canadian players have been left off WJC teams and went on to be very good NHL players. Clarke wasn't going to be on the first D pairing and the coach wanted more defensive-minded players in the second and third pairing. And coaches have favorites and sometimes just make mistakes.

I keep going back to Herb Brooks: "I'm not looking for the best players; I'm looking for the right ones." Is Clarke not "the right one"?

 

[jt]

TheAthletic did another "who says no" with NHL Execs. The trade they considered seems to be below what we are all talking about getting it done:

3. Chychrun to Los Angeles for Gabriel Vilardi, Lias Andersson, Tobias Bjornfot, and 2022 second- and third-round picks. ? Tyler W.

Exec: Arizona says no.

Pronman: Vilardi and Andersson?s stocks are not very high at the moment although Vilardi has been quite good in the AHL of late. Talking to NHL personnel, I don?t get the sense either can be core pieces of a deal. Bjornfot is more intriguing because there are more NHL believers, but L.A. would probably need to throw in another more enticing piece.

Who says no? NHL executives evaluate your trade proposals for Chychrun, Giroux, Hertl and others

The executives are definitely more familiar with the east coast/Canadian teams based on their comments but overall its a fun read. I think most of us here would take the trade that was proposed, which means it was a bad proposal.

That trade offer is absurd. There's not top-end guy at all...of course the Coyotes say no. Put in Turcotte and you've got a more realistic offer.

 

[HeadInjury]

After strongly supporting the quest for Chychrun, I have lately arrived at your same position/conclusions. Florida recently escalated the stakes to ridiculous. This deal may yet bypass ludicrous and go straight to plaid. Better to find a more suitable trading partner. If Clarke is as ready advertised, does he not make Durzi, Faber, Spence, Roy and/or Walker potentially available to headline a swap for an LD? There is also something to be said for going forward with the current guys (plus Edler) and having them experience the fight for a playoff spot. And if the Kings actually make the playoffs, wouldn't that only enhance the value of the RD guys who have been on the roster?

My guess long term is the right side will be Doughty, Clarke and Faber, but that's a couple of years away. Between now and then, most of Roy, Walker, Durzi, Grans and Spence can be used as trade chips.

Jordan Spence is having a hell of a rookie season in Ontario. 2 goals, 28 assists, +12 in 37 games. He's 3rd in the AHL in points among defensemen and the first among rookies.

 

[jt]

After strongly supporting the quest for Chychrun, I have lately arrived at your same position/conclusions. Florida recently escalated the stakes to ridiculous. This deal may yet bypass ludicrous and go straight to plaid. Better to find a more suitable trading partner. If Clarke is as ready advertised, does he not make Durzi, Faber, Spence, Roy and/or Walker potentially available to headline a swap for an LD? There is also something to be said for going forward with the current guys (plus Edler) and having them experience the fight for a playoff spot. And if the Kings actually make the playoffs, wouldn't that only enhance the value of the RD guys who have been on the roster?

Ok, name one more suitable trading partner for a LD who is actually available (so no talk about Dahlin).

 

[jt]

Jordan Spence is having a hell of a rookie season in Ontario. 2 goals, 28 assists, +12 in 37 games. He's 3rd in the AHL in points among defensemen and the first among rookies.

Has anyone watched enough of him to know if he's driving play or just the beneficiary of a group of elite-level AHL forwards?