Elliotte Friedman: Chychrun May Be Available

Not exactly news, but HNIC said: ”They do have that [offer] from one team in the NHL as we speak now, essentially two former first-round players and a first-round draft pick.”

In my humble opinion Arizona will not do this without Clarke being included. Plus most likely two of Turcotte, Vilardi or Kupari. And on top of that the 22 first round pick. That’s a lot to pay, but Arizona will not give a player like that away without a king’s ransom… ;-)

The more I look at Chychrun's play this season, combined with historically, the more last season appears to be an anomaly. Doesn't mean he can't turn it around, but I would not give up Clarke, 2 of Turcotte/Vilardi/Kupari and a 2022 1st for him. Personally I think that is an extreme over payment at this point.

Maybe a 2022 1st, Grundstrom and Fagemo
 
The more I look at Chychrun's play this season, combined with historically, the more last season appears to be an anomaly. Doesn't mean he can't turn it around, but I would not give up Clarke, 2 of Turcotte/Vilardi/Kupari and a 2022 1st for him. Personally I think that is an extreme over payment at this point.

Maybe a 2022 1st, Grundstrom and Fagemo

Personally, I would be willing to swap either Grundstr?m or Fagemo for Vilardi if Arizona prefered that. I got a bad feeling about the whole Vilardi situation and think it’s wiser to use his value in a trade.
 
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Maybe a 2022 1st, Grundstrom and Fagemo
Yeah, that's not going to come close. According to Marek, AZ has already been offered the asking price - two former first rounders and a 2022 first. And, obviously, they didn't take it yet.
 
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Yeah, that's not going to come close. According to Marek, AZ has already been offered the asking price - two former first rounders and a 2022 first. And, obviously, they didn't take it yet.

That's the parameters I've heard as well. 2002 1st rounder plus 2 players drafted in the first round. Why would any GM offer 3 players plus a 1st?
 
Yeah, that's not going to come close. According to Marek, AZ has already been offered the asking price - two former first rounders and a 2022 first. And, obviously, they didn't take it yet.

Yeah but honestly that is a pretty vague offer "two former first rounders" as we know the talent level and nhl success differs quite a bit in the typical 1st round (especially late 1st round picks). My guess is that they are not being offered two top level former 1st round picks and a future early-mid 2022 1st round draft pick.

Also I'd be curious to see how long ago those former 1st round picks were drafted and what kind of salary they carry as many teams can't afford to add the prorated portion of the $4.6m to their salary this season.
 
IF it was Kupari, Vilardi and a 1st, I'd be more than happy with that. Kupari is good, but he is completely replaceable and we literally already have the guys to do it. Vilardi? Vilardi may be great, but he never will be on this team, so lose him this way or lose him another. And the 1st, the cupboards are finally full. I'm assuming this is the offer and can see why they're not jumping to say yes.
 
After taking a good look at Chychrun's career to date, and in comparing his play this season with the other players on his team, last season really is beginning to look more like an outlier than the norm - for whatever that is worth. He is still a damn good/possibly great player.

I would offer the 2022 unprotected first, and any two prospects not named Clarke, Byfield, or Kaliyev. My heart really wants to add Turcotte to the untouchable list, but have to give to get, as they say... Maybe if Turcotte is part of the package a 2nd round pick comes back to even things out? Maybe just the first and Turcotte does it?
 
After taking a good look at Chychrun's career to date, and in comparing his play this season with the other players on his team, last season really is beginning to look more like an outlier than the norm - for whatever that is worth. He is still a damn good/possibly great player.

I would offer the 2022 unprotected first, and any two prospects not named Clarke, Byfield, or Kaliyev. My heart really wants to add Turcotte to the untouchable list, but have to give to get, as they say... Maybe if Turcotte is part of the package a 2nd round pick comes back to even things out? Maybe just the first and Turcotte does it?

I agree and would put Turcotte on the untouchable list. Clarke is interesting as he reminds me of a future Coffey in that he may become a future star but still not be very highly coveted by teams based on his style. Makes me wonder how much trade value he has.

IF it was Kupari, Vilardi and a 1st, I'd be more than happy with that. Kupari is good, but he is completely replaceable and we literally already have the guys to do it. Vilardi? Vilardi may be great, but he never will be on this team, so lose him this way or lose him another. And the 1st, the cupboards are finally full. I'm assuming this is the offer and can see why they're not jumping to say yes.

I'd hate to lose Vilardi and Kupari but would prefer this to losing Turcotte. Kupari reminds me of a Vinny Prospal type player where it will take him several seasons to get started but will get there and be highly effective if given time. I still think Vilardi become a 30 goal scorer (at wing) in the near future, which is something the Kings desperately need, and should fit well with Kopitar. If Chychrun is the real deal, though, it would be worth it.
 
There's no one in the pipeline currently who can be expected to be a top-4 left d-man. Kirill Kirsanov is the only possibility in that regard and who knows if and when he'll come over, let alone develop. So I'm in favor of the move, although not sold on Chychrun as a true top pairing d-man.

I think our unprotected #1 in 2022 is going to potentially be way more valuable than, for example, Florida's #1 in 2023. The Rangers are supposedly in the mix, but if they're dangling Kakko, who's an RFA, does Arizona really want to deal with his new contract, given that he'll want a big raise and has thus far been underwhelming?
 
I was all in on Vilardi and Kupari and forgot just how many first rounders we have in the system. Would hate to lose Turcotte. Bjornfoot we could do without I suppose. I think Clarke would be a mistake, but you have to give to get. Vilardi stuck in the minors makes me wonder both ways. Either a) Why would they want a guy who can't even get back in the lineup or B) he still has some value and Blake is afraid to call him up and have him ruin that.
 
I agree and would put Turcotte on the untouchable list. Clarke is interesting as he reminds me of a future Coffey in that he may become a future star but still not be very highly coveted by teams based on his style. Makes me wonder how much trade value he has.



I'd hate to lose Vilardi and Kupari but would prefer this to losing Turcotte. Kupari reminds me of a Vinny Prospal type player where it will take him several seasons to get started but will get there and be highly effective if given time. I still think Vilardi become a 30 goal scorer (at wing) in the near future, which is something the Kings desperately need, and should fit well with Kopitar. If Chychrun is the real deal, though, it would be worth it.

I think it's possible, but I have a hard time seeing it happen on a TM coached team.
 
The Rangers are supposedly in the mix, but if they're dangling Kakko, who's an RFA, does Arizona really want to deal with his new contract, given that he'll want a big raise and has thus far been underwhelming?

I hear what you are saying but what AZ is "thinking" isn't make much sense at this point. They want to move JC who has a number of years left on his contract but NOT want to deal with an RFA? That's a bit confusing to me. So until a deal goes through and we see what AZ receives then maybe there be some sense to all of this.

jom
 
Gostisbehere doesn’t look like his numbers are too terrible on that crappy Yotes team.

Also, if the Blue Jackets decide to rebuild, maybe just maybe they’d accept something crazy for Werenski. That’s a trade I’d make, even if it meant giving them Turcotte, Vilardi, Clarke, and a 1st..
 
The more I look at Chychrun's play this season, combined with historically, the more last season appears to be an anomaly. Doesn't mean he can't turn it around, but I would not give up Clarke, 2 of Turcotte/Vilardi/Kupari and a 2022 1st for him. Personally I think that is an extreme over payment at this point.

Maybe a 2022 1st, Grundstrom and Fagemo

So you're thinking fair value for a 23 yr old D who has these numbers:

68 games: 7/13/20
50 games: 4/10/14
53 games: 5/15/20
63 games: 12/14/26
56 games: 18/23/41
29 games: 2/6/8 (on arguably the worst team in the NHL for the last several years)

...is a 1st rounder that will likely be in the 20s + a guy who struggles to stay in the lineup on the 4th line + a prospect who has proven absolutely nothing in the NHL and has just barely started to prove he can produce in the AHL.

I don't know if that would get Gostisbehere (who I wouldn't want at all), much less Chychrun.

I agree and would put Turcotte on the untouchable list. Clarke is interesting as he reminds me of a future Coffey in that he may become a future star but still not be very highly coveted by teams based on his style. Makes me wonder how much trade value he has.

I'd hate to lose Vilardi and Kupari but would prefer this to losing Turcotte. Kupari reminds me of a Vinny Prospal type player where it will take him several seasons to get started but will get there and be highly effective if given time. I still think Vilardi become a 30 goal scorer (at wing) in the near future, which is something the Kings desperately need, and should fit well with Kopitar. If Chychrun is the real deal, though, it would be worth it.

Although I'd prefer losing Vilardi and Kupari over Turcotte, what has Turcotte done to warrant being untouchable? I see him play in the NHL and he's fine but does nothing remarkable. He may one day but 3 G and 7 A in 18 games in the AHL this season doesn't scream "awesome prospect" IMO. He's still got time to blossom but I've said it before and I'll say it again, he looks like a failed #5 overall pick and more like someone a team would be happy to take in the teens of the 1st round.
 
So you're thinking fair value for a 23 yr old D who has these numbers:

68 games: 7/13/20
50 games: 4/10/14
53 games: 5/15/20
63 games: 12/14/26
56 games: 18/23/41
29 games: 2/6/8 (on arguably the worst team in the NHL for the last several years)

...is a 1st rounder that will likely be in the 20s + a guy who struggles to stay in the lineup on the 4th line + a prospect who has proven absolutely nothing in the NHL and has just barely started to prove he can produce in the AHL.

I don't know if that would get Gostisbehere (who I wouldn't want at all), much less Chychrun.

Yeah I think it is pretty fair if you look at his total game - to be fair, though, I'm not certain on how strong the draft is projected to be this year. The only season that stands out as elite was last year. Meanwhile Ghost looks much better than him on the same team this year. Remember what Ghost (who makes $100k less per season) went to AZ for?

"Flyers trade Shayne Gostisbehere to Arizona Coyotes, clear cap space but also lose 2 draft picks. It wasn't stunning that the Flyers traded Gostisbehere to Arizona on Thursday. ... The Flyers had to give the Coyotes second- and seventh-round draft picks in 2022 to take the puck-moving player they call ?Ghost.?Jul 22, 2021"



Although I'd prefer losing Vilardi and Kupari over Turcotte, what has Turcotte done to warrant being untouchable? I see him play in the NHL and he's fine but does nothing remarkable. He may one day but 3 G and 7 A in 18 games in the AHL this season doesn't scream "awesome prospect" IMO. He's still got time to blossom but I've said it before and I'll say it again, he looks like a failed #5 overall pick and more like someone a team would be happy to take in the teens of the 1st round.

I understand your point if you are basing it off current performance with the Kings, but disagree. I've been keeping an eye on Turcotte since his USN days and there is zero doubt in my mind that he is a special player. That said, in the NHL safe expectations is 40 points a season with a solid two way game. Keep an eye on the little things he does on the ice, he's a lot like a future Danault and makes the players around him better while contributing in every zone. Pair him with a solid sniper and his point totals will go up, but his game isn't one that is going to translate into a lot of points but rather play a key role in championships. Biggest wild card with him, however, is if he can stay healthy and realize his potential. I can definitely see him translating into a 70-80 point per season player if he can stay healthy and meets his potential, but long after his point totals begin to fade he will still offer significant value to a team as he does all the little things right.
 
Yeah I think it is pretty fair if you look at his total game - to be fair, though, I'm not certain on how strong the draft is projected to be this year. The only season that stands out as elite was last year. Meanwhile Ghost looks much better than him on the same team this year. Remember what Ghost (who makes $100k less per season) went to AZ for?

That's true about elite years. But a package for a proven elite D on a reasonable contract is WAY more than Turcotte + Vilardi/Kupari + 2022 1st. Take a look at the comps of past trades for proven elite D on a reasonable contract (which almost never come up anyway). Karlsson would be the comp and it would be much more than that.

"Flyers trade Shayne Gostisbehere to Arizona Coyotes, clear cap space but also lose 2 draft picks. It wasn't stunning that the Flyers traded Gostisbehere to Arizona on Thursday. ... The Flyers had to give the Coyotes second- and seventh-round draft picks in 2022 to take the puck-moving player they call “Ghost.”Jul 22, 2021"

IMO Gostisbehere is the epitomy of the guy who puts up great numbers on terrible teams and is a total failure on a good team. I don't care about his numbers, if I were the Kings I wouldn't trade Austin Wagner for him.

I understand your point if you are basing it off current performance with the Kings, but disagree. I've been keeping an eye on Turcotte since his USN days and there is zero doubt in my mind that he is a special player. That said, in the NHL safe expectations is 40 points a season with a solid two way game. Keep an eye on the little things he does on the ice, he's a lot like a future Danault and makes the players around him better while contributing in every zone. Pair him with a solid sniper and his point totals will go up, but his game isn't one that is going to translate into a lot of points but rather play a key role in championships. Biggest wild card with him, however, is if he can stay healthy and realize his potential. I can definitely see him translating into a 70-80 point per season player if he can stay healthy and meets his potential, but long after his point totals begin to fade he will still offer significant value to a team as he does all the little things right.

I have too and I'm not that impressed. He wasn't great at the 2021 WJC (not just his numbers but his play). I know he's got this reputation of doing the little things and making his linemates better but I'm not seeing it in his play on the ice. He's only 20 and it might come, but I'm not seeing signs that it will. He's talked about like he'll be the next Ryan O'Reilly and I just don't see it. The bottom line for me is you don't use a #5 overall pick on a guy who gets you 40 points, even if he is "special"...especially when what they lack is offensive talent.

I'm also not a believer in blaming linemates for a player's lack of success, just look at Lizotte and Moore - those guys make their own success nomatter who their linemates are. To me they're the barometer to measure Turcotte by and I just don't see it right now. Turcotte's play is what tells me how good he is and he's just not doing the things he's got a reputation for. That said, I agree with his health being a concern. He's a small guy who plays a big man's game and that usually results in an injury riddled career.

IMO, the Kings have enough guys like Turcotte who are more character than skill and that makes him expendable. Not at a low cost like Vilardi is trending toward, but definitely not untouchable. Which reminds me how so many people said Vilardi was untouchable in 2018 when Pacioretty was on the block. Wouldn't it have been nice to have traded him for Pacioretty?

I'll ask a little different question since you seem to see Turcotte as a vital piece of winning a Cup. Who would you compare him to?
 
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So you're thinking fair value for a 23 yr old D who has these numbers:

68 games: 7/13/20
50 games: 4/10/14
53 games: 5/15/20
63 games: 12/14/26
56 games: 18/23/41
29 games: 2/6/8 (on arguably the worst team in the NHL for the last several years)

...is a 1st rounder that will likely be in the 20s + a guy who struggles to stay in the lineup on the 4th line + a prospect who has proven absolutely nothing in the NHL and has just barely started to prove he can produce in the AHL.

I don't know if that would get Gostisbehere (who I wouldn't want at all), much less Chychrun.



Although I'd prefer losing Vilardi and Kupari over Turcotte, what has Turcotte done to warrant being untouchable? I see him play in the NHL and he's fine but does nothing remarkable. He may one day but 3 G and 7 A in 18 games in the AHL this season doesn't scream "awesome prospect" IMO. He's still got time to blossom but I've said it before and I'll say it again, he looks like a failed #5 overall pick and more like someone a team would be happy to take in the teens of the 1st round.

All those games missed in such a short career doesn't concern you? 105 games in 6 years.
 
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