Hiller Hotseat Thread

[Statue4Deano]

Comparing any baseball ownership to the NHL is folly. Pro hockey might be the toughest sport to achieve any kind of dynastic dominance in. It takes the perfect balance of top and balanced roleplaying talent get through the postseason in the NHL, and that's before factoring in the sorcery, witchcraft and psychiatry of goaltending are addressed.

There was a 26 year gap between back to back World Series winners in the MLB until the current Dodgers team won this year. MLB has the most parity of any of the big four pro sports in North America (in terms of championships). 17 unique winners since 2000.

Over that same 26 year period the NHL had 3 back to back Cup winners (Pitts, TB, FLA). Three teams who won the Cup 3 times (Pitts, Chi, TB) and five teams who won 2 times (LA, FLA, NJ, COL, Det). 14 unique winners since 2000.

 

[Kurisu]

There was a 26 year gap between back to back World Series winners in the MLB until the current Dodgers team won this year. MLB has the most parity of any of the big four pro sports in North America (in terms of championships). 17 unique winners since 2000.

Over that same 26 year period the NHL had 3 back to back Cup winners (Pitts, TB, FLA). Three teams who won the Cup 3 times (Pitts, Chi, TB) and five teams who won 2 times (LA, FLA, NJ, COL, Det). 14 unique winners since 2000.

In MLB, high payrolls strongly correlate with regular-season success and playoff appearances, but championships are disproportionately driven by randomness. The absence of a salary cap allows elite teams to consistently reach October, yet the sport’s structural variance — pitching, short series, and small-sample volatility — makes winning the World Series far less predictable than in other leagues. Spending buys opportunities, not outcomes.

 

[Statue4Deano]

In MLB, high payrolls strongly correlate with regular-season success and playoff appearances, but championships are disproportionately driven by randomness. The absence of a salary cap allows elite teams to consistently reach October, yet the sport’s structural variance — pitching, short series, and small-sample volatility — makes winning the World Series far less predictable than in other leagues. Spending buys opportunities, not outcomes.

Yes this is the conventional thinking. The current Dodgers run seems to be breaking the long established paradigm. They are very clearly doing something different than just spending the most money on the best players.

So the question I have is if your contention is that the NHL is the most difficult league (of the NA big 4) to build something resembling a dynasty why do the results over the past 25+ years disagree with you?

I’d say the MLB is the most difficult league to build a dynasty but the Dodgers have done just that. And my original point stands. What are they doing right from an ownership perspective to give the front office the chance to build something better than the rest of the league and can those principles be used in the NHL?

 

[JayWells24]

Sadly, there are a lot of passionate Kings fans watching from afar and are waiting to be notified of Hiller and/or Luc's departure. Then will rejoin full time. I am not part of that group, but am very close.

 

[What party?]

Luc = Arte Moreno

Hiller= Desjardins?

 

[What party?]

I think the private equity model checks out, but I believe Luc wants to win just as much as anyone in the Dodgers’ office wants to. He just sucks at his job.

 

[Birdman]

Just for fun, lets say that the Matthews trade rumors are true and we are a destination of choice.

Would you back up the truck and give them what they want, assuming it would cost Byfield, Clarke, Greentree, Woolley, and a 2026 1st?

 

[What party?]

Yes this is the conventional thinking. The current Dodgers run seems to be breaking the long established paradigm. They are very clearly doing something different than just spending the most money on the best players.

So the question I have is if your contention is that the NHL is the most difficult league (of the NA big 4) to build something resembling a dynasty why do the results over the past 25+ years disagree with you?

I’d say the MLB is the most difficult league to build a dynasty but the Dodgers have done just that. And my original point stands. What are they doing right from an ownership perspective to give the front office the chance to build something better than the rest of the league and can those principles be used in the NHL?

Agreed. But beyond the business aspect of the dodgers, a person who could care less about sports has gone to a dodger game, and win or lose had a fun time. I went to a game once and it took me 6 innings to realize Kershaw was pitching (yes, I was greeted at my seats with micheladas) and asked my friend if he came on as middle relief, no, he stared the game. *shrugs* That "vibe" is also hard to replicate.

And, the NHL as a whole has been gatekeeping for 70 plus years to the "educated" fan; which is fine but that's a difficult bell to unring. Los Angeles is in an oversaturated sports market in an uncertain economic times, the Kings as a franchise ...is on the clock.

My darkest timeline:
Quebec Kings? Or a funny t-shirt in the future that you see at a pop up vintage store, that you remember used to be a thing.

 

[Statue4Deano]

Agreed. But beyond the business aspect of the dodgers, a person who could care less about sports has gone to a dodger game, and win or lose had a fun time. I went to a game once and it took me 6 innings to realize Kershaw was pitching (yes, I was greeted at my seats with micheladas) and asked my friend if he came on as middle relief, no, he stared the game. *shrugs* That "vibe" is also hard to replicate.

And, the NHL as a whole has been gatekeeping for 70 plus years to the "educated" fan; which is fine but that's a difficult bell to unring. Los Angeles is in an oversaturated sports market in an uncertain economic times, the Kings as a franchise ...is on the clock.

My darkest timeline:
Quebec Kings? Or a funny t-shirt in the future that you see at a pop up vintage store, that you remember used to be a thing.

Hey some would say the best thing about going to a game is everything other than the baseball.

 

[DryKing]

Just for fun, lets say that the Matthews trade rumors are true and we are a destination of choice.

Would you back up the truck and give them what they want, assuming it would cost Byfield, Clarke, Greentree, Woolley, and a 2026 1st?

That's a tough one. On one side Matthews is an elite goal scorer, but on the other side he has not shown he can carry a team nor does he seem to dominate come playoff time.

All said, though, I would probably do it without including Woolley and instead tossing in the 2nd round pick we acquired for Danault.

 

[VCRW]

Just for fun, lets say that the Matthews trade rumors are true and we are a destination of choice.

Would you back up the truck and give them what they want, assuming it would cost Byfield, Clarke, Greentree, Woolley, and a 2026 1st?

I would love to see Matthews, Kempe & Laferriere on a line.

Keep Woolley. Big strapping body! And keep Brzusty too!

Cihar’s value is on the rise at the WJC. Might be worth more than Greentree right now.

 

[Statue4Deano]

Just for fun, lets say that the Matthews trade rumors are true and we are a destination of choice.

Would you back up the truck and give them what they want, assuming it would cost Byfield, Clarke, Greentree, Woolley, and a 2026 1st?

The Kings post-Matthews trade would have a higher ceiling but the window gets a lot smaller.

 

[Bollocks]

Just for fun, lets say that the Matthews trade rumors are true and we are a destination of choice.

Would you back up the truck and give them what they want, assuming it would cost Byfield, Clarke, Greentree, Woolley, and a 2026 1st?

LOL, add in Laf, Bruz and another 3 1st round picks to make sure the Leafs are happy with the haul.

An overpay. Byfield, Greentree, one of the goalie prospects and a 1st. Include a 3rd team if necessary.

 

[Clif]

The problem is he wants to win just enough to keep his employers happy (by keeping the butts in the seats and getting to the playoffs), all while avoiding rebuilds/retools like plague and also avoiding upsetting the casuals (meaning DD will very unlikely be traded for as long as he remains in serviceable form, especially after the ill-received trade of JQ even when he was in a disastrous form).

Building a proper contender takes a lot of time with reduced profits and lowered team ownership value and, sadly, also bears significant risk of becoming the Sabres or BJs instead of a success story.

And if there's a generational talent in a draft that could potentailly put butts in the seats for thet foreseeable future there's always the lottery there to potentially screw you, so even if that's the potential upside of tanking the owners are still very wary of it, especially if the team as is is (theoretically) capable of reaching the playoffs.

The reasons you listed are exactly why owners don’t like rebuilds. And Kings did rebuild, just on an accelerated schedule. But 2018 was an absolute tear-down so to say Luc avoids them is simply inaccurate.

It didn’t lead to success. Luc and Blake failed, and Hiller failed most of all.

It’s a rare thing to begin a second rebuild within 10 years. No ownership group would be comfortable with that.

Now at this point if it makes people feel better to weave a narrative that somehow this team is just all about profits and just being status quo only, I’m the idiot to keep arguing with them. Hockey is hard, making the playoffs is harder, building a winner is hardest. Luc and Blake had a flawed vision that happened to produce a playoff team that couldn’t beat the same team 4 years in a row.

And now the team needs to seriously change in philosophy as Simple Jim drags along its tired corpse across the barren tundra of hockey hell in a system so insulting as its built on fear and avoidance we just need him to go away and begin the healing process. Missing the playoffs would be ideal, but I think even another first round exit could do the trick for Luc.

 

[Statue4Deano]

The reasons you listed are exactly why owners don’t like rebuilds. And Kings did rebuild, just on an accelerated schedule. But 2018 was an absolute tear-down so to say Luc avoids them is simply inaccurate.

It didn’t lead to success. Luc and Blake failed, and Hiller failed most of all.

It’s a rare thing to begin a second rebuild within 10 years. No ownership group would be comfortable with that.

Now at this point if it makes people feel better to weave a narrative that somehow this team is just all about profits and just being status quo, I’m the idiot to keep arguing with them. Hockey is hard, making the playoffs is harder, building a winner is hardest. Luc and Blake had a flawed vision that happened to produce a playoff team that couldn’t beat the same team 4 years in a row.

And now the team needs to seriously change in philosophy as Simple Jim drags along its tired corpse across the barren tundra of hockey hell in a system so insulting with fear as its absolute foundation that we just need him to go away and begin the healing process. Missing the playoffs would be ideal, but I think even another first round exit could do the trick for Luc.

Agree on almost all fronts. Only bit I’d quibble is highlighted. 16 playoff spots for 32 teams. Making the playoffs should be the lowest of expectations unless you have a directive from above.

Luc is not good enough at his job. Imagine if the NHL were an actual meritocracy…

 

[Clif]

Agree on almost all fronts. Only bit I’d quibble is highlighted. 16 playoff spots for 32 teams. Making the playoffs should be the lowest of expectations unless you have a directive from above.

Luc is not good enough at his job. Imagine if the NHL were an actual meritocracy…

Fair. I say it’s hard because of parity but I don’t mind this quibble. It’s 50 percent of teams.

Something I left off is Blake got fired and Holland was brought in to “win now.” So yeah, Luc and company want very much to win, but they can’t.

Holland starting up a retool (not rebuild) doesn’t sound that realistic either but I have to hope he’ll see he doesn’t have another choice. Ideally next year is a purposeful step back with a coach who will play young players and get the team acclimated to a new system. Too much needs to happen first, though.

 

[symbology]

Just for fun, lets say that the Matthews trade rumors are true and we are a destination of choice.

Would you back up the truck and give them what they want, assuming it would cost Byfield, Clarke, Greentree, Woolley, and a 2026 1st?

This trade would not make sense. If those were the pieces going back, I cannot see Mathews wanting to come to LA. That is unless he just wants to come to LA to enjoy the beach life. If that was his attitude it would not really matter though. The team would suck and be screwed for years to come.

 

[Statue4Deano]

Fair. I say it’s hard because of parity but I don’t mind this quibble. It’s 50 percent of teams.

Something I left off is Blake got fired and Holland was brought in to “win now.” So yeah, Luc and company want very much to win, but they can’t.

Holland starting up a retool (not rebuild) doesn’t sound that realistic either but I have to hope he’ll see he doesn’t have another choice. Ideally next year is a purposeful step back with a coach who will play young players and get the team acclimated to a new system. Too much needs to happen first, though.

I’m approaching the tipping point where I’d even be fine with Holland staying as long as Luc steps down. Bump Kenny up to pres. of hockey ops let him pick someone younger to handle GM duties. Something has got to change.

 

[Clif]

I’m approaching the tipping point where I’d even be fine with Holland staying as long as Luc steps down. Bump Kenny up to pres. of hockey ops let him pick someone younger to handle GM duties. Something has got to change.

This is exactly where I am at. Or at the very least have Holland fill Pres and GM duties for a year or two. Just change course.

 

[What party?]

Hey some would say the best thing about going to a game is everything other than the baseball.

*laughing* Yes, some would say that but the Dodgers steered into that 30 years ago and have made generations of fans in the process. Show up in the 3rd and leave in the 7th was the insult in the MLB for their description of a typical Dodger fan. But, the dodgers were like you do you, and if you grab a hat or shirt on the way out, great, come back wheneves.

If the Kings did the same thing...we'd have more people here obsessing. No offense.

Aside, in the last 6 posts we've gone from fire Hiller to meh let him tank but Ken needs to be moved laterally and a Matthews rumor? Dope. IN.

Any Matthews rumor that does not involve Drew Doughty is fools gold. =)