Kaliyev

[DarkLeftHand]

Regarding Madden, the scouting reports of ‘blazing speed’ seem strange to me, as I’ve never noticed anything of the sort when watching a few Reign games here and there.

As far as Kaliyev goes, his ice time is so minimal and his opportunities so few and far between, I’m sure he has zero confidence in his shot right now. So he’s either gripping the stick too tight and shanking shots wide, or just popping safe shots right into the goalies crest. I bet if he was given some premier power-play time with a set up guy who can actually feed him, you’d see his shot develop back to what we saw the first 50 games or so. Perhaps having him in Doughty’s spot in our PP alignment, and let him crank away.. Would he ever score regularly at even strength is anyone’s guess, but he’s one of those one dimensional shooter types like Mike Hoffman, who could benefit from riding alongside playmakers who can create their own space. But I think a guy like him needs at least 3-4 quality set ups to score in the course of game action. Probably not ever going to happen in a Kings uniform, as evinced by Kempe being the first player in a million years to score 40 as a shooting winger

 

[symbology]

Regarding Madden, the scouting reports of ‘blazing speed’ seem strange to me, as I’ve never noticed anything of the sort when watching a few Reign games here and there.

As far as Kaliyev goes, his ice time is so minimal and his opportunities so few and far between, I’m sure he has zero confidence in his shot right now. So he’s either gripping the stick too tight and shanking shots wide, or just popping safe shots right into the goalies crest. I bet if he was given some premier power-play time with a set up guy who can actually feed him, you’d see his shot develop back to what we saw the first 50 games or so. Perhaps having him in Doughty’s spot in our PP alignment, and let him crank away.. Would he ever score regularly at even strength is anyone’s guess, but he’s one of those one dimensional shooter types like Mike Hoffman, who could benefit from riding alongside playmakers who can create their own space. But I think a guy like him needs at least 3-4 quality set ups to score in the course of game action. Probably not ever going to happen in a Kings uniform, as evinced by Kempe being the first player in a million years to score 40 as a shooting winger

Yep, Madden was touted as having all this speed and deception. Some thought that in the draft he would go so high as a late first rounder, or early 2nd rounder. He fell in the draft just like Kaliyev. Madden was taken in the 3rd round. The big knock on him a the time was his size and strength. The assumption was he would grow a bit and be a bigger stronger player. Problem is, that did not really happen.

Early last season Kaliyev was money on the PP. He was effective up until the first of December in 2022. Then, in late December he got injured. He came back and played a lot of games the last half of that season. Problem was his game was gone. Even on the PP he would find himself along the halfwall, not really in a position to shoot and score from. On top of that, he was a disaster with the puck. Mishandling it, and often sending bouncing knuckle-ball pucks at Durzi at the point. That was a recipe for disaster.

Kaliyev got plenty of opportunity last season on the PP, but the only thing he did was play himself out of the lineup. His being scratched started late last season. He was asked to work on strength and who knows what else over the summer. It sounds like he did that, but it has not translated into better play on the ice.

 

[Earl]

I see so much of Hull in Calgary with him. I'm old enough to remember Hull in Calgary who looked completely one dimensional with no or virtually no physical play and unfortunately for The Flames he figured out his game in St Louis. I'm not saying he goes to another team next year and becomes Hull but he looks lost out there right now with beyond no confidence. It's strange to me as all reports have him practicing hard and doing all the right things and they still won't use him. Has to be something we as fans are not seeing as that makes no sense to me that they seem to almost go out of their way not to use him.

 

[DarkLeftHand]

I see so much of Hull in Calgary with him. I'm old enough to remember Hull in Calgary who looked completely one dimensional with no or virtually no physical play and unfortunately for The Flames he figured out his game in St Louis. I'm not saying he goes to another team next year and becomes Hull but he looks lost out there right now with beyond no confidence. It's strange to me as all reports have him practicing hard and doing all the right things and they still won't use him. Has to be something we as fans are not seeing as that makes no sense to me that they seem to almost go out of their way not to use him.

Could be that he actually DID request a trade, and that is not sitting well with management. So they give him an occasional ‘showcase’ opportunity in game, and he’s failed to execute in those scant opportunities

 

[symbology]

Could be that he actually DID request a trade, and that is not sitting well with management. So they give him an occasional ‘showcase’ opportunity in game, and he’s failed to execute in those scant opportunities

I can see this as possible. He has played better when he has been out there his last few outings. Something to build on, I would think. Though, I think it was the last game he did make one of his usual mistakes in the defensive zone and gave the puck away.

 

[Earl]

Could be that he actually DID request a trade, and that is not sitting well with management. So they give him an occasional ‘showcase’ opportunity in game, and he’s failed to execute in those scant opportunities

I'm pretty sure his agent requested a trade which made sitting him right before the trade deadline even more curious. Either way it bums me out as a fan of his to see his Kings decline almost by the season.

 

[Birdman]

I'm pretty sure his agent requested a trade which made sitting him right before the trade deadline even more curious. Either way it bums me out as a fan of his to see his Kings decline almost by the season.

Decline assumes he ever reached NHL level competence, and that’s somewhat questionable.

 

[Earl]

Decline assumes he ever reached NHL level competence, and that’s somewhat questionable.

I still see potential in him so when I say decline I'm talking about his Kings career not his overall NHL career potential which I assume will be on another team next season.

 

[Helvetica]

Realistically, what has this guy ever brought to the table? His single standout skill was his shot, and even there, im not sure his shot was ever at the level of guys like Hull or Ovechkin. TBH, the hype of his shot has always been bigger than the reality. But you cant be 1-dimensional in today's NHL. And if you're going to be lacking an all around game, your single skill better be absolutely elite. He's never been at the level of any of the elite shooters in the league right now. His consistency has been poor. He needs more time and space to get his shot off, which is why he's been more successful on the PP than at 5v5. I get that people think the Kings aren't giving him a shot to succeed, but it's kind of wild to think they are doing so for any reason other than that he's not actually performing. these prospects have limited windows to establish themselves as NHL players, and Kaliyev's window is closing.

Maybe he will be a late bloomer, but the Kings don't have that luxury.

 

[symbology]

Realistically, what has this guy ever brought to the table? His single standout skill was his shot, and even there, im not sure his shot was ever at the level of guys like Hull or Ovechkin. TBH, the hype of his shot has always been bigger than the reality. But you cant be 1-dimensional in today's NHL. And if you're going to be lacking an all around game, your single skill better be absolutely elite. He's never been at the level of any of the elite shooters in the league right now. His consistency has been poor. He needs more time and space to get his shot off, which is why he's been more successful on the PP than at 5v5. I get that people think the Kings aren't giving him a shot to succeed, but it's kind of wild to think they are doing so for any reason other than that he's not actually performing. these prospects have limited windows to establish themselves as NHL players, and Kaliyev's window is closing.

Maybe he will be a late bloomer, but the Kings don't have that luxury.

Good post.....

A number of times now I have brought up Kaliyev's good start in October and November of 2022. I fear that many people remember those few months and are expecting to see more of that guy. Maybe even think they have seen that guy more often. The problem is..... his shooting % during that time was thru the roof. His scoring pace then was not sustainable. I want to say he scored something like 90 % of his points for that season in the first 25 of the (56) games that he played. His scoring touch dissapeared at game 25 of the 2020 season and has not been seen since.

For those that like him and still think he deserves a better shot than he is getting, toss out those 25 games and look at the other 160 of his career. It is not impressive for a one dimensional player. As Helvetica just brought up, his scoring ability is not what you think it is. If you remember the good times (first 2 months of the 2022 season), I can see why you would want to compare him to Hull. However, if you also remember the other 160 games that comparison is difficult to make IMO.

 

[kingnut]

Could be that he actually DID request a trade, and that is not sitting well with management. So they give him an occasional ‘showcase’ opportunity in game, and he’s failed to execute in those scant opportunities

I thought I heard Foxy say that he did request a trade, not sure though

 

[HiFi]

Realistically, what has this guy ever brought to the table? His single standout skill was his shot, and even there, im not sure his shot was ever at the level of guys like Hull or Ovechkin. TBH, the hype of his shot has always been bigger than the reality. But you cant be 1-dimensional in today's NHL. And if you're going to be lacking an all around game, your single skill better be absolutely elite. He's never been at the level of any of the elite shooters in the league right now. His consistency has been poor. He needs more time and space to get his shot off, which is why he's been more successful on the PP than at 5v5. I get that people think the Kings aren't giving him a shot to succeed, but it's kind of wild to think they are doing so for any reason other than that he's not actually performing. these prospects have limited windows to establish themselves as NHL players, and Kaliyev's window is closing.

Maybe he will be a late bloomer, but the Kings don't have that luxury.

Whoa whoa whoa! He’s a scorer. Clearly, we could have used him the last two games with our lack of scoring and losses.

Seriously though, agree all the way. Too many holes in his game to make his one-timer or hard shot a priority.

Maybe someone can skate for him, then we call timeout mid play when he’s about to get a shot opportunity, and we sub him in.

 

[Johnnysuede71]

I see so much of Hull in Calgary with him. I'm old enough to remember Hull in Calgary who looked completely one dimensional with no or virtually no physical play and unfortunately for The Flames he figured out his game in St Louis. I'm not saying he goes to another team next year and becomes Hull but he looks lost out there right now with beyond no confidence. It's strange to me as all reports have him practicing hard and doing all the right things and they still won't use him. Has to be something we as fans are not seeing as that makes no sense to me that they seem to almost go out of their way not to use him.

Except that Hull had 50 points in 57 games with Flames before the trade to the Blues. He was clearly a true talent. His issues were conditioning and attitude. I don't see the parallel with AK.

 

[Earl]

Except that Hull had 50 points in 57 games with Flames before the trade to the Blues. He was clearly a true talent. His issues were conditioning and attitude. I don't see the parallel with AK.

I think the skeleton of Hull is in Kaliyev if you could find him the right line mates. Listen at some point it's on him as this was his rep in juniors of being semi one dimensional and he's had 3 years to prove himself. I thought him and Dubois would mesh well but they did not. I mean I know there is a reason he slid to the 2nd round and maybe those issues are popping up again but I'd like to see him get a fresh start under a system that benefits him before I call him a total bust.

 

[DarkLeftHand]

I don’t know about Hull, but I see a lot of similarities with Toffoli, from early in his career. Prolific scoring shooter, who’s got good size, but doesn’t play very physical hockey. Wasn’t it the tough board play they had to drill into Toffoli’s brain early on? I don’t necessarily think either of these guys plays soft, but they’re both soft-spoken, soft attitude guys.. imagine if you put lizotte’s or turcotte’s spirit into Kaliyev’s body? Now we are talking.

Eventually, Kaliyev will figure it out, and score 20-25 goals annually, but will also likely be one of those trade deadline nomads because he gets overlooked due to temperament and ‘eye test’ judgement. He’s not a creator or facilitator and never will be. He’s a 25 goal complimentary winger who needs a Kucherov/Panarin/Zibanejad type to feed him cookies all night. Might as well just go ahead and nickname him Cookie Monster, because that’s what he is.

 

[Helvetica]

I don’t know about Hull, but I see a lot of similarities with Toffoli, from early in his career. Prolific scoring shooter, who’s got good size, but doesn’t play very physical hockey. Wasn’t it the tough board play they had to drill into Toffoli’s brain early on? I don’t necessarily think either of these guys plays soft, but they’re both soft-spoken, soft attitude guys.. imagine if you put lizotte’s or turcotte’s spirit into Kaliyev’s body? Now we are talking.

Eventually, Kaliyev will figure it out, and score 20-25 goals annually, but will also likely be one of those trade deadline nomads because he gets overlooked due to temperament and ‘eye test’ judgement. He’s not a creator or facilitator and never will be. He’s a 25 goal complimentary winger who needs a Kucherov/Panarin/Zibanejad type to feed him cookies all night. Might as well just go ahead and nickname him Cookie Monster, because that’s what he is.

i think a big difference between Toffoli and and Kaliyev though is that Toffoli had the ability to get his shot of from anywhere and under more pressure. he had the ability to dig pucks from in his feet and still get the shot. Kaliyev still seems to need the puck in a perfect spot to get his shot off, and you just dont get many perfect passes at this level, at least not in 5v5 situations.

For all the criticism though, i do actually think Kaliyev can be a full time nhl player, i just dont think it's going to be with LA, because we need guys that are nhl ready, or are more well rounded, so that they can contribute while improving.

 

[Earl]

I think the key with Kaliyev is pairing him with 2 guys who compliment him. Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming his linemates for his shortcomings which he does have but I think if you could find him a distributor and the opposite winger who could take the heat off him he could thrive but sadly like others have said it probably won't be in Los Angeles.

I thought his strongest game was that one game vs The Ducks where Gudas nailed him and after that he played with an edge I've rarely seen him play with. In the US 18 team he was great with Zegras and Turcotte, not sure what happened since?

 

[jammer06]

I don’t know about Hull, but I see a lot of similarities with Toffoli, from early in his career. Prolific scoring shooter, who’s got good size, but doesn’t play very physical hockey. Wasn’t it the tough board play they had to drill into Toffoli’s brain early on? I don’t necessarily think either of these guys plays soft, but they’re both soft-spoken, soft attitude guys.. imagine if you put lizotte’s or turcotte’s spirit into Kaliyev’s body? Now we are talking.

Eventually, Kaliyev will figure it out, and score 20-25 goals annually, but will also likely be one of those trade deadline nomads because he gets overlooked due to temperament and ‘eye test’ judgement. He’s not a creator or facilitator and never will be. He’s a 25 goal complimentary winger who needs a Kucherov/Panarin/Zibanejad type to feed him cookies all night. Might as well just go ahead and nickname him Cookie Monster, because that’s what he is.

Actually Toffoli was well further ahead than most first rounders coming out of jr's into the nhl when it came to board play. I attribute it to the fact that he did play wing in Jrs and thus was much more used to being along the boards and a little more polished at positioning and that first touch to the puck to set himself up for success. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't super physical or anything, but on a contested wrap around the boards he was nhl comfortable from the get go and fairly reliable to at least tie things up. He was tremendously good at getting the puck from his feet to his stick for tap passes off the boards.

 

[jammer06]

I think the key with Kaliyev is pairing him with 2 guys who compliment him. Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming his linemates for his shortcomings which he does have but I think if you could find him a distributor and the opposite winger who could take the heat off him he could thrive but sadly like others have said it probably won't be in Los Angeles.

I thought his strongest game was that one game vs The Ducks where Gudas nailed him and after that he played with an edge I've rarely seen him play with. In the US 18 team he was great with Zegras and Turcotte, not sure what happened since?

The key to developing a guy like Kaliyev is you need to set him up for success. I mean Q has had a sh*tload of time and been shown tremendous patience to be let loose playing with Kempe and Kopi. Does anyone really think he'd be where he is right now had he spent all his time with Lizotte and Lemieux? The Kings had Q and Kaliyev though and for the sake of the franchise they picked the right guy to play on the first line and invest all that time into. No telling if it wouldn't have been better for Kaliyev to play in the A pounding one timers with Tynan but probably the answer is that it's confusing to a youngster to give em 4th line minutes and PP time.

 

[Pickle_Pucks]

Did I just read this correctly, people are comparing AK to BRETT HULL?