Kempe, RFA

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aaron said:
Play with Kopi, score goals. Not exactly an argument for Kempe
After a quick skim, I find it unconvincing. Sell high at the deadline.
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you specifically mentioned a concern for primary assist. Team shooting % is low for players he's been playing with, but he's creating shot chances when he's on the ice. It indicates that, and the eye test seems to back it up, this team creates shots but struggles to finish. And here we are, talking about trading away one of the few finishers this season...

He's doing a lot of things right. Isnt wildly above his xGF or his career shooting percentage. And his assist would look better if teh guys around him could finish.
 
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Helvetica said:
you specifically mentioned a concern for primary assist. Team shooting % is low for players he's been playing with, but he's creating shot chances when he's on the ice. It indicates that, and the eye test seems to back it up, this team creates shots but struggles to finish. And here we are, talking about trading away one of the few finishers this season...

He's doing a lot of things right. Isnt wildly above his xGF or his career shooting percentage. And his assist would look better if teh guys around him could finish.
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He's 50% high on his shooting percent. (15% vs 10%)
I did find the xG and SC part of the article interesting. Not enough to consider him a long term part of the plan.
Kings prospect pool looks ok at the Kempe level (middle 6). Need to pick up more lottery tickets for top 3 level players.
 
aaron said:
He's 50% high on his shooting percent. (15% vs 10%)
I did find the xG and SC part of the article interesting. Not enough to consider him a long term part of the plan.
Kings prospect pool looks ok at the Kempe level (middle 6). Need to pick up more lottery tickets for top 3 level players.
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No one’s trading a top 3 pick for Kempe and Kings are past being bad enough to pick that high. But if you think the team is still in that phase of the rebuild, I think I’ll pass on arguing any of your other points.

Watching your dig your heels in this hard is super entertaining though!
 
aaron said:
He's 50% high on his shooting percent. (15% vs 10%)
I did find the xG and SC part of the article interesting. Not enough to consider him a long term part of the plan.
Kings prospect pool looks ok at the Kempe level (middle 6). Need to pick up more lottery tickets for top 3 level players.
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I dunno. 15 vs 10 doesnt seem that far out of wack. this isnt troy terry territory. With respect to his extension, i think he's absolutely earned one, its simply a matter of term and price. It would send a pretty awful message at this point to trade him away.And you're going to need to keep some vets who demonstrated some consistency when Guys like Kopitar aren't around anymore. If all you're trying to accomplish is getting more lottery balls, i think we've got plenty of prospects to convert into tickets at this point.

EDIT/

also, because i decided to go back and look at his career S%, id say his current 14.3% looks even less concerning than i initially thought. His career percentages look like this:
6.25%
13.25%
10.17%
7.4%
11.0%
14.3% Current

He's had two down down years that feel more abnormal than this 14.3. His rookie season was poor, and a couple seasons ago when the Kings were awful. The more i look at this the less i care. Sign this man!!
 
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Lets see how Kempe finishes the season. I'd love to be debating this if he goes on a further tear and gets to 40 (Pretty sure Palffy was our last to hit that mark). But for now he's RFA bridge because you're going to have to set an expectation of reward for all the kids coming up. There's too many of them coming for everyone to get an 8 year deal.
 
jammer06 said:
Lets see how Kempe finishes the season. I'd love to be debating this if he goes on a further tear and gets to 40 (Pretty sure Palffy was our last to hit that mark). But for now he's RFA bridge because you're going to have to set an expectation of reward for all the kids coming up. There's too many of them coming for everyone to get an 8 year deal.
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there's no way he hits 40. I still think he'll be sitting right at, or just below, 30 goals. To me though, it's been more than just goals for him. He's playing in all situations and is a pretty integral part of the Kings offense. He's fairly skilled, has good speed, size, and is willing to mix it up here and there. In what world do you not sign tis guy for a reasonable offer? Kings are seemingly on the uptick, have brought in quality personnel to fill a couple holes, and look poised to push for a playoff spot. The prospect pool is large, so if we want to recycle some pieces for another round of lottery tickets, go there. But trading this guy for a pick or whatever seems really counterproductive and sends an awful message to the team. If you play well, show good development, and do everything we ask, we're going to trade you to hopefully get the stars to align at a later date.

No thanks.
 
Helvetica said:
there's no way he hits 40. I still think he'll be sitting right at, or just below, 30 goals. To me though, it's been more than just goals for him. He's playing in all situations and is a pretty integral part of the Kings offense. He's fairly skilled, has good speed, size, and is willing to mix it up here and there. In what world do you not sign tis guy for a reasonable offer? Kings are seemingly on the uptick, have brought in quality personnel to fill a couple holes, and look poised to push for a playoff spot. The prospect pool is large, so if we want to recycle some pieces for another round of lottery tickets, go there. But trading this guy for a pick or whatever seems really counterproductive and sends an awful message to the team. If you play well, show good development, and do everything we ask, we're going to trade you to hopefully get the stars to align at a later date.

No thanks.
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Kempe in the idea of the Chycrun trade is probably where I'd fall to the side of having some cold feet. Mostly because I'm totally on board with that trade being worth Clarke and our first, but adding an RFA asset like Kempe....I'd hope they don't want to deal with his presumptive ask and move to something else.

A hockey trade with Kempe as the piece for a D-man that we can't get otherwise is not something I'm saying no to. A trade because he's going to be too expensive and we want to maximize the asset...well that would really be unfortunate.
 
jammer06 said:
Kempe in the idea of the Chycrun trade is probably where I'd fall to the side of having some cold feet. Mostly because I'm totally on board with that trade being worth Clarke and our first, but adding an RFA asset like Kempe....I'd hope they don't want to deal with his presumptive ask and move to something else.

A hockey trade with Kempe as the piece for a D-man that we can't get otherwise is not something I'm saying no to. A trade because he's going to be too expensive and we want to maximize the asset...well that would really be unfortunate.
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Given the state of AZ's franchise, im not expecting Kempe to be the ask. If Kempe was part of any trade for a D-man, id have pretty serious reservations, but it would also depend on the guy were trading for and the totality of the package. With that said, id still be looking at extending Kempe with a reasonable contract for both sides. And I would not be actively shopping him. I think he's earned it here.
 
Helvetica said:
I dunno. 15 vs 10 doesnt seem that far out of wack. this isnt troy terry territory. With respect to his extension, i think he's absolutely earned one, its simply a matter of term and price. It would send a pretty awful message at this point to trade him away.And you're going to need to keep some vets who demonstrated some consistency when Guys like Kopitar aren't around anymore. If all you're trying to accomplish is getting more lottery balls, i think we've got plenty of prospects to convert into tickets at this point.

EDIT/

also, because i decided to go back and look at his career S%, id say his current 14.3% looks even less concerning than i initially thought. His career percentages look like this:
6.25%
13.25%
10.17%
7.4%
11.0%
14.3% Current

He's had two down down years that feel more abnormal than this 14.3. His rookie season was poor, and a couple seasons ago when the Kings were awful. The more i look at this the less i care. Sign this man!!
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Agreed. Let's be honest, it's 99% unlikely that he will keep up a 14.3 shooting percentage but on he really has evolved his game and the position from which he is taking shots as opposed to previous seasons so I see it remaining "good" in the future, though likely not elite.


Helvetica said:
there's no way he hits 40. I still think he'll be sitting right at, or just below, 30 goals. To me though, it's been more than just goals for him. He's playing in all situations and is a pretty integral part of the Kings offense. He's fairly skilled, has good speed, size, and is willing to mix it up here and there. In what world do you not sign tis guy for a reasonable offer? Kings are seemingly on the uptick, have brought in quality personnel to fill a couple holes, and look poised to push for a playoff spot. The prospect pool is large, so if we want to recycle some pieces for another round of lottery tickets, go there. But trading this guy for a pick or whatever seems really counterproductive and sends an awful message to the team. If you play well, show good development, and do everything we ask, we're going to trade you to hopefully get the stars to align at a later date.

No thanks.
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Agreed, I'm projected 32 goals for him by season end (barring an injury etc). That said, you call it out perfecting that his game is evolved to the point where goals is only a piece of what he adds to the team and even should his goal production slip he still will be a valuable part of the team (skating speed, ability to drive to the net, passing, solid defensive play, toughness and wiliness to mix it up, and emerging leadership are just a few). Kings would be silly to trade him.
 
All-Star bump: Kempe just came in second in the fastest skater competition. He was barely beaten by just 0.035 seconds!

Truly elite skating speed coupled with a team-leading 19 goals in a 200’ player. Kempe is going nowhere.
 
Also, don't forget the Kings lost 3 straight with Kempe out and then started kicking butt in New Jersey when he returned. Some of that is coincidence but Juice has turned into a complete player goal scorer.
 
hokiecat said:
Also, don't forget the Kings lost 3 straight with Kempe out and then started kicking butt in New Jersey when he returned. Some of that is coincidence but Juice has turned into a complete player goal scorer.
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Good role model for Vilardi amd Kupari
 
VCRW said:
Management and the coaching staff believe in Juice as well. Seems every game his TOI is going up. Led the forwards in that category last night in Tampa. Don't understand why people are unable get past the cliched stereotype and see that he is no longer the inconsistent pre-2020 Kempe. Juice will be wearing a letter soon.

https://lakingsinsider.com/2021/12/...empe-delivering-for-kings-so-far-this-season/
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Not sure about a letter but anything is possible.

The thing I've been impressed with is the edge to his game he is playing with. He's seems to have figured out the NHL game (finally) and now is probably the only King who has a killer instinct to me.

He's definitely a guy to keep and build around to me based upon his play to this point in the season. If he regresses, which I truly would be shocked if it happened, then maybe I change my attitude.
 
VCRW said:
All-Star bump: Kempe just came in second in the fastest skater competition. He was barely beaten by just 0.035 seconds!

Truly elite skating speed coupled with a team-leading 19 goals in a 200’ player. Kempe is going nowhere.
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McDavid came in 4th. Kempe for McDavid + 2nd?
 
So when this was originally posted I was in the trade at the deadline camp, in part because what his next contract might cost coupled with his propensity to disappear at times, and because I do believe we have some players in the A who might be able to step up several notches and surprise us in the next 2/3 seasons.

I have a different opinion now, though for the right price (yada yada). It's amazing what having consistent mutually complimentary line mates can do for certain players. Good players like Kempe, Moore, Arvi, probably Kaliyev and Fagemo aren't necessarily the drivers of their lines but once they get on a line they click with, good things seem to happen.

Not sure yet which of the other two options I would change my vote to, but I wouldn't trade unless it was a legit significant overpayment.
 
santiclaws said:
McDavid came in 4th. Kempe for McDavid + 2nd?
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Kurisu said:
Draisaitl choked in the Accuracy Shooting Event. Maybe throw in Turcotte and get them both?
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Busted Chops said:
So when this was originally posted I was in the trade at the deadline camp, in part because what his next contract might cost coupled with his propensity to disappear at times, and because I do believe we have some players in the A who might be able to step up several notches and surprise us in the next 2/3 seasons.

I have a different opinion now, though for the right price (yada yada). It's amazing what having consistent mutually complimentary line mates can do for certain players. Good players like Kempe, Moore, Arvi, probably Kaliyev and Fagemo aren't necessarily the drivers of their lines but once they get on a line they click with, good things seem to happen.

Not sure yet which of the other two options I would change my vote to, but I wouldn't trade unless it was a legit significant overpayment.
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We all know anyone is trade-able for the right piece in all professional sports. But why move Juice now after all the time invested in getting him to where he is today?

I believe many Kings fans have underestimated/undervalued Kempe’s speed and the strength he shows on his skates. While Wags has straight line speed, Kempe can make skilled skating moves at full speed. Juice would beat Wagner in a 1 lap race. The league even knows about Adrian now and yet he is still able to get open for his chances with regularity.

In addition to shoring up the left side of the defense, this goal-starved team would do well to hold onto its goal-scorers.
 
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