hokiecat
Super Star
This is the funniest thing I've read all week
Confirmed with Link Kings name Holland their 10th GM in History
- Thread starter Dexter
- Start date
Clif
Super Star
I think he can look at Kempe, Byfield, Laf, Turcotte, Helenius, Anderson, Clarke, Spence, Greentree, and the goalie prospects to recognize the scouting staff know what they are doing. Add in that they also scouted Faber and Vilardi. If he proves to not trust them, then okay, I’ll be pessimistic with you.
I think he’ll have autonomy, but I also think he’s coming in because he sees a team that’s close and he’ll take a couple years to see if he can put them over the edge. Safe to say Emerson will be jettisoned, so very interested to see who the AGM will be. If it’s Yanetti, things are looking really good.
Statue4Deano
Super Star
If Yannetti is the next in line I’m suddenly a lot more optimistic about the future.
hokiecat
Super Star
He was apparently pushed by other members of management/execs to sign them during the season which he failed to do and he also failed to provide enough cap space to sign them at a later point. At the point of Oilers losing them to the offer sheets they simply couldn't afford them anymore.
Ken Holland was apparently “instructed” by “top levels of the Oilers organization” to sign Holloway and Broberg during the season
When all else fails, blame the guy who isn't around anymore. <!--mo...oilersnation.com
"In December and January, Holloway was on the shelf because of a knee injury suffered in November and he only had one goal over 14 games. Broberg was playing in the American Hockey League and the young defender had been granted permission to seek a change of scenery."
To me this seems like he neglects the development of younger players in his philosophy. Have Rob/Dean ever failed to sign a highly touted prospect or waited to the point of losing all leverage? I can't remember such a case...
OK. Let's get some context here. Bob Stauffer is a mouthpiece for the organization. Lots of the independent bloggers say that. So it is a bit like the mayor running interference for the Kings when they "leak" some information.
The Holloway and Broberg contacts are bad for the Oilers. I'm still not sure just how poorly it reflects on Holland except for blaming hte guy who is gone. As noted in the quoted text, both guys were a mess in midseason. So while it would have been nice for the org to lock them up for cheap and on term (Turcotte deal is a win for Blake in that regard), it might not be very likely that the players' agents would want them to sign something cheap. Either try to bounce back or sign a prove-it deal with another org.
Also, it was Jackson not Holland who supposedly went out on day 1 and was signing FAs like Arvy to fill out the roster. Clearly the Oilers brain trust made a mistake-- they probably should have signed 1 of their RFAs before chasing UFAs-- but again, I'm not sure it is all Holland.
In short, GMs aren't going to win every trade or every signing. I think Holland will be a similar replacement to Blake. Not terrible but nothing special. He'll probably keep the Kings in the playoffs which is what AEG wants.
Bollocks
Top Forward
Holland could've given them a 1 year "prove-it" contracts. I'm sure both would accept a contract in the region of 1.5-2 million tops at that point in season. Holland knew they will be up to the cap at the end of that season and this one (if he won the Cup) one way or another. If they proved themselves last season + this one he could've at least traded them for good deadline help this season if he didn't trust them for the Cup push. Worst case scenario he would trade them for peanuts or send them down/on waivers to get some cap space for deadline deals.
But he didn't and waited. After he was fired, it was too late to salvage the situation. Another "win-now" GM was hired and inherited a dilemma - at that point it was too late, he'd have to overpay for young players that might or might not bring Oilers success and handcuff himself in the UFA market, or let the young players go, take the measly picks in return and sign UFAs that he thought would help them win the Cup.
There was money available, but the priorities were win now (then). And these priorities will be the same with the Kings...and because Ken has much more authority and reputation I'm afraid he can do much more damage than Rob could ever do...(I still think Rob intentionally sabotaged this team with Willie-D so he could retool and have something to work with).
symbology
TEAM LGK
Did he really abandon, or is that just a possible narrative that was thrown out?
I have mixed feelings on his entire situation. A GM that provided a 4th line that consisted of players that have a combined 125ish NHL games played, one that includes a rookie and a career AHL'r. One that the coach (right or wrong) was not confident enough to give them minutes? A GM that over the last few years ha given away most of the 2nd round pics in off season deals when those pics could have been used at the trade deadline. Had that GM had any cap space to work with.
Blake has not been horrible. He made some good moves, some head scratchers and basically built a team that cannot get out of the 1st round.
The Kings future will not immediately be brighter when the new GM is at the helm. Only time will tell. Same outlook would apply to Blake if he continued as the GM.
lol
DryKing
Power Forward
Regarding the 4th line, that's not really true. Lewis alone has 1,034 regular season games, then there is Jeannot with another 294. The AHL're comes into play due not only to injury, but the coaches decision to play him over a vet (Lewis). That's on the coach, no the GM.
Trading away draft picks was one of Blake's achilles heels for sure. Some of it paid boons in getting the right, ready now, players but others was just poor asset management. He could have gone big at the trade deadline and giving up even more assets, but let's face it this year the team was well enough constructed to win, and the two seasons prior the Kings weren't going to be a legit Cup contender regardless. Not pulling a Lombardi and trading away top picks for rentals was one of Blake's strengths, not weaknesses.
Blake's worst decisions were when it came to 1) choosing head coaches and 2) giving them silly high pay and long terms 3) one really horrible trade.
Blake's best decisions were when it came to 1) choosing free agents 2) selecting draft picks.
If the Kings choose Holland as the next GM then the Organization takes a huge leap backwards. It signifies, to me, that they will put everything into winning the Cup in the next two years then leave the team a desolate wasteland thereafter. I mean let's be real, Holland couldn't even find a decent enough goalie to help Edmonton win the Cup while have the best player in the world, and another top 5, on the team.
dannybuoy1
Cause Mitchrock said so
If I never see the guy in Staples or my television again, I will be thrilled.
dannybuoy1
Cause Mitchrock said so
I am 90/10 pro Holland. Holland knows how to draft talent and acquire talent. He knows how to win in different eras. He cannot do worse than Blake. He reached the WCF with Edmonton 3 times and lets face it, this team now is really his team. So that is 4 if they get in. Detroit was competitive for a long time. Edmonton is still competitive and as long as they keep Connor, they will be for a long time too.
Also, goalies are hit and miss. I cannot fault him too much for that.
Lastly, its Edmonton, which is not exactly a place where players want to go and sign.
The only downside is that he is older. Which to me is the least of my concern. I am all for it.
Statue4Deano
Super Star
Statue4Deano
Super Star
There’s a decent chance Holland will get this team past the 1st round. There is very little chance he turns this team into a contender.
I’m prepared to be underwhelmed.
symbology
TEAM LGK
Emerson and Blake are very close buddies if I recall. Just an fyi.
symbology
TEAM LGK
Yes it is true. Though you have some valid points. That fact of the matter...... Who was playing in the playoffs? Minus some time for Lewis, the old man who should have hung them up last year. The old man that was outplayed by a career AHL'r (who was not awful to be honest). Yes, Jeannot was out with an injury. That happens. But a team with decent depth does not turn to a career AHL'r to fill that role. That is the point I was making.
If he needed depth he could have acquired it at the deadline. Though he had no assets, or $ to do so. Who's fault was that? Not the GM's?
Oh, and Holland it is........ and I am afraid you are probably right.
DryKing
Power Forward
He will trade away all the picks he can and further destroy our prospect pool for the next few years all to get the team eventually swept in the 2nd round. Let's go!
On a plus side, he historically has seemed to choose better (or let his star player choose) HC's than Blake has done. I look forward to seeing who Doughty selects as HC j/k
Clif
Super Star
Yes they are, which is part of why I think Holland will bump him off. Nothing personal, but without Blake at the helm who’s looking out for that guy to be such an elevated role?
Statue4Deano
Super Star
I honestly think Luc could’ve done a lot worse than Holland. Ken will be a bridge taking the organization out of the Kopitar era and into whatever comes next. I just hope whoever is hired as Assistant GM is a data > feelings hire.He will trade away all the picks he can and further destroy our prospect pool for the next few years all to get the team eventually swept in the 2nd round. Let's go!
On a plus side, he historically has seemed to choose better (or let his star player choose) HC's than Blake has done. I look forward to seeing who Doughty selects as HC j/k
And if Holland can figure out how to get a young 1st pairing mobile puck moving defenseman here without trading Byfield or Clarke, he’s got my seal of approval.
Bollocks
Top Forward
I envy your optimism.
Holland drafted two good prospects since arriving in Edmonton and he let them walk for peanuts because he gambled on their resigning because he wanted to save every penny heading into deadline, after which it was impossible to acommodate either of them into their cap after acquiring Henrique.
He went almost all in at the cost of their future. He'd most likely trade more picks away if he had more cap space. AFAIK Rob didn't wait until the very last minute without enough cap space on hand to resign important young players.
Ken's whole success in Detroit hinged on the no-cap era. Detroit was indeed very competitive for a long time in the cap era, too, but that was a team built in the pre-cap era and they were competitive until the aging core (consisting of the prospects most of which were drafted and signed to first contracts in pre-cap era) emptied their tanks. After that there was a chasm of young talent influx with only Larkin, Tatar, Hronek, Nyquist, Abdelkader, Helm, Rasmussen and Mantha showing any real NHL success in post-cap Holland era, most of which are now long gone from Detroit. He milked the remaining aging core to the very end of his tenure there and he left the team in tatters.
What makes you think he will do better in LA in this regard? If they wanted to ease into the new era post Kopitar and then post DD, I think another retool would be a much wiser strategy for long term development of this team, and for that they would not hire Holland. So clearly the intent is to squeeze as much as possible out of this aging core.
Regarding his accomplishments with Oilers - he had 2 of the most gifted offensive players in the last decade, in their prime. Who do Kings have that has such gamebreaking ability that they can outscore an opponent basically on their own volition? No one comes even close. He had TWO players like that.
Goalies can be quite hit&miss, yes, but their issue is both defense and goalies and all this is closely tied to Holland neglecting the future/cheap+affordable young talent that would then enable them a deeper roster, and spending too much money on sub-par players.
Also, I don't think he had much more of a difficult time signing UFAs precisely because of McDavid and Draisaitl. His work in LA in this regard will be harder for sure.
All in all...I see no signs of him being an improvement over Blake. On par with Blake at best, most likely worse considering this team's timeline (aging Kopitar and DD do not bode well for the Cup winning chances). He doesn't appear to be a better contract negotiator, nor is he able to attract very good UFAs for cheap, he IS a worse drafter and DOES neglect young hockey players' development.
And regarding HC choice I sure hope he doesn't bring in Mike Babcock or someone similar who is unable to win in the cap era without a superteam...maybe Tippett can work better in an environment where there is less pressure to win?
