santiclaws
I was in the pool!!
Meanwhile in Ontario, CP pitches a shutout and is now 4-1 with a 1.61 GAA and .947% SV.
J
jgs
Lurker
I like Quick, he has done real lot for the Kings. They wouldn't have won those two cups without him, but reality is at his position with age the skill level drops. What made Quick great was his quickness. he never was a positional goaltender, he relied on his speed to get into a position to make the save and his speed has slowed down. It is life, his save percentage is proof of this. Eventually the Kings will have to make a change in that position. Copley is getting it done so far and should continue to get the starts. Hopefully Cal can regain his confidence and claim the number 1 spot as he was expected to do. It is the same team in front of Copley and he is making the saves. Average or not he is chalking up wins. Quick's best is behind him and he will continue to get slower.
I
Illegal_Stick
Lurker
No doubt you get older you get slower, but I don't know about Quick. He's not what he was BUT this year, it seemed to be about reads, not quickness. He just could never read the situation. Cal too. Their problems were very similar, despite their age difference (not that dramatic I guess, as Cal isn't as young as I think.) Copley so far has made some big saves, but overall he just looks good, not elite, not unbeatable and that's what this team needs. What he has shown is that our goalies were playing brutal. He reads the play well and makes the odd clutch save. Petersen and Quick were other-worldly terrible, but unless I'm remembering wrong, the goals that went in they were often standing right there for, not struggling to get to the shots quick enough.
DryKing
Power Forward
Yeah probably 60/40 - ~60% of the time they had little chance to a defensive breakdown or forward being wide open and receiving the pass across from one side of the slot to the other, ~40% of the time they were squared up to the shooter and just missed it. I still don't subscribe to Quick being "bad" as the quality scoring chances against him were way out of wack due to poor defensive play in front of him. I do, however, think you could see the mental wear down on both Quick and Petersen that took place as games progressed and they were often left out to dry.
Big thing with Copely is the team is playing much better, with the exception of one game, in front of him and he seems mentally fresh. The fact that he was able to bounce back from the beatdown that was Buffalo to help beat Boston the next game shows a mental strength that I don't think Quick or especially Petersen have shown so far this season.
I'd also bet on the fact that Quick is once again injured (based on his lateral movement the last couple games he's played - likely a groin injury).
J
JETS GARAGE
Lurker
I think this is the chance that Copley has been waiting for his whole career. He has the maturity and the experience to really put it all together at this point. He has been solid in all starts. He had a shut out going against Buffalo for 2 periods before the team collectively **** the bed in the third.
Also hopefully this will light a little fire under Quick and Cal by giving them a little competition for the goalie spot.
The PK stinks, that needs to be addressed, but also if the team would stop taking ridiculous penalties that problem would be minimized. Seems like they did a little better vs the sharts, hope they can keep that going.
Also hopefully this will light a little fire under Quick and Cal by giving them a little competition for the goalie spot.
The PK stinks, that needs to be addressed, but also if the team would stop taking ridiculous penalties that problem would be minimized. Seems like they did a little better vs the sharts, hope they can keep that going.
P
Pickle_Pucks
Lurker
Copley is awesome but if he keeps up this pace the Kings won't be able to afford him next year.
Even if they can, a Copley + Cal tandem scares me, big time.
Blake has really neglected the goaltending position, missed on some flier picks, failed to trade for anyone decent, and signed Cal's contract in blood, for some reason.
Even if they can, a Copley + Cal tandem scares me, big time.
Blake has really neglected the goaltending position, missed on some flier picks, failed to trade for anyone decent, and signed Cal's contract in blood, for some reason.
Bollocks
Top Forward
Could be that old "trust in your GK" being on display. The fact that the Kings have usually 2 or 3 relatively inexperienced players on defense means that trust in the goalie plays a big part in their confidence - rather than being stressed about making any mistakes, they can afford playing more a relaxed, composed game.
Of course they will be able to afford him. First of all he's 30yo and never managed to solidify himself as a starter. OR a backup. Since I doubt he'll be able to post insane numbers he most definitely won't have enough leverage to demand anything close to a ransom. He's going to have to be happy to finally make it and earn a few million over a few years by doing so, but that's it.
Besides, Quick's albatross contract goes off the books.
Regarding Copley + Cal tandem scaring you...I'm sure part of the story about Cal this season was Quick's inability to play. ALL the pressure was on him and it seems he just buckled. Let's not give up on him yet. Even though he's most likely going to be overpaid for what he brings, if Copley keeps up his solid play I'm sure Cal can come in in a 1A/1B situation and perform good enough.
Let's also not forget Villalta is waiting for an opportunity, too.
Is this a Cup winning goalie situation for the future? Probably not. But they do have some time to fix it without having to be desperate.
santiclaws
I was in the pool!!
They're way out of whack for what we're used to with the Kings playing a solid defensive game for a very long time (from which Quick benefited tremendously). They're not out of whack for the NHL in general. The SV% for both Quick and CP on quality scoring chances specifically are at the very bottom of the league as well.
DryKing
Power Forward
Just my opinion, but I think there is a relatively low chance that the Kings players have more trust in Copely than they do Quick. I actually think it's the opposite in that the defense feels less focuses on alleviating mistakes because they think Quick will bail them out. It's an interesting thought though, all the same.
Quick stats are a bit of a mixed bag and yes in some analytics categories he is the worst in the league out of goalies who have played 20+ games. A couple interesting points though: he has a save % above expected of -0.010 (worst out of 20+) but that means his expected save % is 0.892. This is an important point as many here are arguing he is horrible due to being under .900. To reach .900 he would have to be +0.08 above expected which would place him 6th in the league tied with Andrei Vasilevskiy. Let that one sink in.
Additionally his is tied for 9th worst projected GAA at 2.99, this tells me the Kings are no where near league average on defense when he plays.
I will give you, however, that you are correct in that based on analytics he has been overall poor this season.
I
Illegal_Stick
Lurker
Don't want the guy to be hurt, but if he is would be kind of ideal. He gets rehab and rest, Petersen gets a chance to play some of the easier teams perhaps and build on his AHL confidence.
santiclaws
I was in the pool!!
Would you mind sharing the site you found that on? I don't see a SV% above expected on sites I usually use.
Just to throw out a couple more stats regarding goalies who are playing behind mediocre to bad defenses judging by how many high quality chances they've faced (from naturalstattrick.com): Out of the 26 goalies who have faced 100+ high danger shots this season Quick's overall save percentage is .896%, ranking him 25th (by .001 over last); his SV% on high danger shots is .816, which ranks him 19th out of 26; his GSAA (which measures quality of shots) is -9.72, which is 25th out of 26; high danger GSAA is -2.8, ranking him 21st.
Compare that to say, John Gibson, playing for an atrocious Ducks team, who has faced almost exactly 50% more high-danger chances than Quick in just one more game played: overall .914 SV%; SV% on high danger shots .853; GSAA -1.83; high danger GSAA +3.72.
DryKing
Power Forward
Sure, please see below:
https://moneypuck.com/goalies.htm
Per this site Cal ranks the 6th worst and Quick ranks the 10th worst in terms of goals saved above expected per 60 (Jack Campbell is 9th worst, so he's doing a good job fitting in with his old crew j/k). If you up this to goalies with a min of 20 games played, Quick ranks worst and Gibson ranks 2nd worst in the league.
Bollocks
Top Forward
He's the Kings' backup for when JQ retires, which is after this season. Then the Kings will have 6 million tied to 2 goalies instead of nearly 11.
Now the only thing left for us is hoping that Cal gets his act together and shows he can be at least a decent starter.
M
MiketheKing
Lurker
Well, in the spirit of quality backup goalies that flourish under Ranford, Copley joins the ranks of Keumper and Campbell. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he can his great play up and get re-signed cheap. I doubt Quick wants to retire after this year due to his fighting spirit, so it will be a real fight with Cal.
santiclaws
I was in the pool!!
That site has a terrible design. I've looked at it many times, I never realized there was a slider which you could move to see additional stats. Thanks.
P
Pickle_Pucks
Lurker
Quick is done, statistically.
Could he go home and sign with Buffalo or the Islanders as a vet backup presence? Maybe.
But I don't see any scenario where the Kings resign him next year.
They have almost no choice but to roll Peterson and Copley next year, or another such journeyman goaltender.
Could he go home and sign with Buffalo or the Islanders as a vet backup presence? Maybe.
But I don't see any scenario where the Kings resign him next year.
They have almost no choice but to roll Peterson and Copley next year, or another such journeyman goaltender.
DryKing
Power Forward
This is Rob Blake we are talking about. If Quick wants to return, Rob will sign him but for far less than he is making now. End of day it will be Quick's decision.
My guess is that Quick retires when Kopitar's contract expires (and I hope he stays around until then as I'd like to see him in the HoF and he likely needs 33 more wins to get there).
K
kingrussell
Lurker
By the time we got to Phoenix he was rising
W
waynet
Lurker
I share the sentiment for 2 SC Quick. His athletic style was effective, sometimes remarkable, at his peak. As he approaches 37yrs old, that athletic ability is in natural decline. Stats bear this out, as noted earlier, he ranks low in most goaltending parameters. Hovering a bit over .500, the Kings were able to survive poor goaltending by both Cal and JQ. Still early in the Copley story, though encouraging so far. Cal seems to be playing well for Ontario, .94 SV% @ 6 games, also encouraging. IMO the Kings have the offense to win with average goaltending.
