2022 Offseason Thread

[jammer06]

But Fiala’s an RFA… what would be the price?

From the article:

Last offseason provided arguably the closest comparables you’ll find for Fiala as three RFA wingers in their mid-20s were dealt (although Fiala’s arguably better than all of them). Conor Garland moved as part of Arizona and Vancouver’s blockbuster deal. The Canucks dealt the No. 9 pick as part of the trade, which presumably would have been for Garland’s services (Oliver Ekman-Larsson wouldn’t have had much trade value in that deal, considering his mammoth long-term contract). That might have been a slight overpay, though, as Garland probably wouldn’t fetch a top-10 pick if he were put back on the market today.

In contrast, one could argue that Pavel Buchnevich was traded for 80 cents on the dollar. Buchnevich scored 20 goals and 48 points in 54 games, in addition to being a quality two-way presence for the Rangers in 2020-21. New York couldn’t afford his next contract, though, and in the end, it received just a second-round pick and bottom-six winger Sammy Blais. That feels like a light return considering Buchnevich potted 30 goals and 76 points in 73 games for St. Louis this season.

Reinhart is probably the closest comparable to Fiala for what a realistic package looks like. Reinhart scored at a 38-goal pace on a dreadful Sabres team in 2020-21 and was a bona fide top-line-caliber talent like Fiala. Reinhart was in the same boat as an RFA one year away from UFA status.

Florida surrendered a 2022 first-round pick (top-10 protected) and prospect goaltender Devon Levi for Reinhart. Levi was a seventh-round pick in 2020, but he had an outstanding World Juniors performance later that year, posting three shutouts and a 0.67 goals-against average in seven games to guide Canada to a gold-medal win. Levi was only one year removed from being a seventh-round pick at the time of the trade, but he’s turned into a legitimate blue-chip prospect since joining the Sabres organization. Levi was the best netminder in college hockey last season and looks like he could be the Sabres’ goalie of the future.

Would a first-round pick and a quality prospect be a reasonable package for Fiala based on the Reinhart return?

That's a reasonable ask and one that the Kings would have the ammo for. The Wild are going to need ELC help with their cap as they enter Parise and Suter Buyout hell. In fact they might forgo the pick for 2 NHL roster ready ELC players. (this would have to be something like Turcotte and Durzi/Spence, or Arty and an AHL'er like Thomas). Fiala is going to be a 6 million plus contract, and he's got more playoff disappearance questions after this season. The big worry is that he needed Boldy to get on track at all. Is there a pivot on the Kings that will work with him as a fit? The RFA status means it's easier to keep the length of the deal down which is preferable to what will happen in a Forsberg scenario but realistically Forsberg has a better chance of translating to this Kings team successfully.

 

[gokor84]

About Forsberg:

https://thehockeywriters.com/kings-should-not-pursue-filip-forsberg/

Thoughts?

jom

I whole heartedly agree with this Article. The should be to year to promote the Kids to roles they were drafted for. Kaliev and QB should and to an extend GV should get top six minutes and PP time. Kupari proved to be a really good 3rd line winger for now and a has top six potential. Kings should give Fagemo a good look. As much as I like Lizzote , his size was exposed in Edmonton series and Jad is a better option there long term. I would also look to trade IA and Lemioux and maybe sign nick delouriax whoever you spell his name.

 

[Russ]

Russo posted his take on the eligible teams for Fiala

https://theathletic.com/3329872/2022/05/25/wild-kevin-fiala-trade-value-suitors?source=user-shared-article

The relevant part to the kings:



I'm not a Fiala fan but he was a point per game player away from Kirill

I like the sound of this!!!

 

[santiclaws]

But Fiala?s an RFA? what would be the price?

A fairly high one, but the Kings have assets to use. Why have assets if you're not going to use them to fill a need?

 

[gokor84]

I like Fiala because he plays a style of game that fits the Kings.

 

[VCRW]

A fairly high one, but the Kings have assets to use. Why have assets if you're not going to use them to fill a need?

The big question for Blake is how to best use that first round pick. The next biggest question is who among the log jam at RD gets moved. And then the guys coming off ELCs this year or next will need to be culled and thrown into packages. Is LD still priority #1? Or has that now become Forsberg?

This will be the most interesting year of the rebuild. Blake will need to make several critical moves in transitioning this team from Cinderella to serious player. I believe in the guy and his plan. Hope he can pull a few rabbits out of his hat this summer.

 

[DryKing]

About Forsberg:

https://thehockeywriters.com/kings-should-not-pursue-filip-forsberg/

Thoughts?

jom

Good article - if Forsberg really does command $10m/season I would pass based on already have two large contracts on the Kings. I do think he could hit the 40 goal mark with the Kings though.

The big question for Blake is how to best use that first round pick. The next biggest question is who among the log jam at RD gets moved. And then the guys coming off ELCs this year or next will need to be culled and thrown into packages. Is LD still priority #1? Or has that now become Forsberg?

This will be the most interesting year of the rebuild. Blake will need to make several critical moves in transitioning this team from Cinderella to serious player. I believe in the guy and his plan. Hope he can pull a few rabbits out of his hat this summer.

Agreed, my preference is that we hold the draft pick and use to bring in a high potential big defenseman like Owen Pickering. I wouldn't want to include that in a deal for Fiala as we could potentially fill a large need with it and have other assets to offer up instead.

As much as I like Lizzote , his size was exposed in Edmonton series and Jad is a better option there long term.

I believe Lizotte showed himself to be a special player last season, and able to hang in there despite taking a great deal of punishment in the playoffs. If he was bigger he'd be a solid 3rd/4th line center for us, but as is he could be a real gem on the wing. The negative to moving him to wing is that he facilitates well from the center position and puts his wingers in a great position to score. That said, I do agree that JAD is a better fit as our main 4th line center next season.

 

[JayWells24]

Moving Iafallo for whatever he returns in a draft pick or including him in a trade package is a good place to start. Kings need the $4 million in cap space far more than they need another underperforming winger.

If Kopi just can?t live without his talisman, then maybe he can pay AI the $4 million out of his overblown salary?

Moving Iafallo in any package I am on board with. Playing 30 games with Kempe and Kopitar and he only scores 1 goal. Pathetic.

 

[Clif]

Fiala would give me less concern than Forsberg re: health and cap hit. He also feels pretty attainable given the asset pool and MN’s needs. I can’t help but dream about Forsberg anyway.

Fiala or Forsberg/Kopitar/Kempe
Moore/Danault/Arvidsson
Iafallo/Byfield/Kaliyev
Lemieux/Lizotte/Kupari
Grundstrom JAD

And that’s assuming Vilardi is traded. So…trade $4M AI.

Not opposed to signing Nick Paul over Lemieux either if their salaries are comparable. Big body who hits and chips in a few points himself.

 

[jammer06]

More talk about Reilly Smith hitting the market. He's going to be a valuable piece to someone. Not sure the kings can afford him though.

 

[SirJW]

Kings' Sean Durzi: Undergoes shoulder surgery.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hockey/news/kings-sean-durzi-undergoes-shoulder-surgery/

 

[VCRW]

Kings' Sean Durzi: Undergoes shoulder surgery.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hockey/news/kings-sean-durzi-undergoes-shoulder-surgery/

So Durzi and Iafallo had shoulder issues… I wonder who the third guy with a shoulder problem was…

 

[hokiecat]

More talk about Reilly Smith hitting the market. He's going to be a valuable piece to someone. Not sure the kings can afford him though.

Vegas is a mess so you never know. A couple of other thoughts in terms of picking at Vegas' roster. What about trying to get Patches in a salary dump? He's a top line scoring winger. And Vegas could use $7 million like nobody's business. Maybe you can get him for cheap'ish. The other thought will never happen because RFA's never get interest, but how about putting in a 2.5-4mil offer on Nic Hague? A 6-6 LD would help the Kings get pushed around less. And Hague is starting to put his game together playing over 18 minutes.

 

[Clif]

Vegas is a mess so you never know. A couple of other thoughts in terms of picking at Vegas' roster. What about trying to get Patches in a salary dump? He's a top line scoring winger. And Vegas could use $7 million like nobody's business. Maybe you can get him for cheap'ish. The other thought will never happen because RFA's never get interest, but how about putting in a 2.5-4mil offer on Nic Hague? A 6-6 LD would help the Kings get pushed around less. And Hague is starting to put his game together playing over 18 minutes.

With Kempe and Anderson this year and plenty more talented RFAs to sign in the summers ahead the Kings are the last team who need to dabble in the black magic of offer sheets.

Patches would be a late solution as a bridge player if Kings strike out on big scorers this year and opt to take their chances again next summer. Also have little appetite in easing Vegas’ cap woes for a 33 year old we’d have for one year.

 

[jammer06]

With Kempe and Anderson this year and plenty more talented RFAs to sign in the summers ahead the Kings are the last team who need to dabble in the black magic of offer sheets.

Patches would be a late solution as a bridge player if Kings strike out on big scorers this year and opt to take their chances again next summer. Also have little appetite in easing Vegas’ cap woes for a 33 year old we’d have for one year.

If Blake is still interested in patches after the trade here was voided I'd say that's on him. For whatever reason that ship has sailed. Best to move on to the other targets. Hague would be an ideal RFA offer sheet if the kid was interested in signing one.

 

[Clif]

If Blake is still interested in patches after the trade here was voided I'd say that's on him. For whatever reason that ship has sailed. Best to move on to the other targets. Hague would be an ideal RFA offer sheet if the kid was interested in signing one.

There have only been 10 offer sheets made since 2007. They’re rare for a reason. I can’t believe anyone would advocate for Blake poisoning that well when other GMs could just as easily do it to him now and moving forward. Not a precedent worth setting, especially when he’s already sitting on one of the most prized asset pools in the league.

Btw - of those 10, only two went unmatched. Also two of them led directly to retaliatory offer sheets the following season.

How about someone offer sheets Durzi? There goes that trade chip. Or forces Blake to resign him. Unbelievable.

 

[jammer06]

There have only been 10 offer sheets made since 2007. They’re rare for a reason. I can’t believe anyone would advocate for Blake poisoning that well when other GMs could just as easily do it to him now and moving forward. Not a precedent worth setting, especially when he’s already sitting on one of the most prized asset pools in the league.

Btw - of those 10, only two went unmatched. Also two of them led directly to retaliatory offer sheets the following season.

How about someone offer sheets Durzi? There goes that trade chip. Or forces Blake to resign him. Unbelievable.

Not doing something because you shouldn't and not doing something because of custom that's explicitly in the rules are two different things. Getting an RFA to agree to a deal elsewhere is hard enough. Vegas with the cold blooded way they are treating their players is one place that should be susceptible to the tactic with less culture for retribution and their cap and draft pick status won't allow it. If I'm Blake not doing it because retribution is far lower than not doing it because Hague is not going to sign due to his own reluctantance.

 

[Clif]

Not doing something because you shouldn't and not doing something because of custom that's explicitly in the rules are two different things. Getting an RFA to agree to a deal elsewhere is hard enough. Vegas with the cold blooded way they are treating their players is one place that should be susceptible to the tactic with less culture for retribution and their cap and draft pick status won't allow it. If I'm Blake not doing it because retribution is far lower than not doing it because Hague is not going to sign due to his own reluctantance.

Explicitly allowed yes but a good practice no. Good point on Vegas’ vulnerability but there are teams every year who are ripe to have players offer-sheeted. The talk right now is trading for Fiala, but he could just as easily be offer-sheeted and MN wouldn’t have the cap to protect him. If no one does that why not?

The low success rate is a deterrent but there’s also very few attempts. 2 unmatched out of 10 is still 20%. Not nothing. But again - 10 since 2007. Why? There’s gotta be this understanding of mutually assured chaos if GMs with cap go out and poach every year. No one wants that done to them so they don’t do it to anyone else.

Given the contracts Kings have and will have coming up, no one needs to tempt making offer sheets a more acceptable practice. And each time it’s done, especially successfully, there’s a risk it does.

 

[DryKing]

Explicitly allowed yes but a good practice no. Good point on Vegas’ vulnerability but there are teams every year who are ripe to have players offer-sheeted. The talk right now is trading for Fiala, but he could just as easily be offer-sheeted and MN wouldn’t have the cap to protect him. If no one does that why not?

The low success rate is a deterrent but there’s also very few attempts. 2 unmatched out of 10 is still 20%. Not nothing. But again - 10 since 2007. Why? There’s gotta be this understanding of mutually assured chaos if GMs with cap go out and poach every year. No one wants that done to them so they don’t do it to anyone else.

Given the contracts Kings have and will have coming up, no one needs to tempt making offer sheets a more acceptable practice. And each time it’s done, especially successfully, there’s a risk it does.

Totally agree, in current state the Kings are one of the last team (coming out of a rebuild) that making RFA offers an acceptable practice will help. Better to lose the battle and win the war, than focus on offering a RFA today only to be cherry picked in return later.

Vegas has shown to be a soulless Organization but players will still re-up there or sign there if it means a legitimate chance to win the Cup. Gotta think their Cup chances are still higher than ours going into next season, but likely the reverse can be said two seasons from now.

 

[Dr. Tran]

Vegas is a mess so you never know. A couple of other thoughts in terms of picking at Vegas' roster. What about trying to get Patches in a salary dump? He's a top line scoring winger. And Vegas could use $7 million like nobody's business. Maybe you can get him for cheap'ish. The other thought will never happen because RFA's never get interest, but how about putting in a 2.5-4mil offer on Nic Hague? A 6-6 LD would help the Kings get pushed around less. And Hague is starting to put his game together playing over 18 minutes.

But would a $2.5-4 mil offer be enough to pry him loose? I don't think so. Maybe $4 mil is more than they want to pay & will have to shed salary but I think they'd match that. The only way offer sheets work is when the salary is crazy high. And as much as I'd love for us to get a 6'6" 23 y/o up & coming LD, It wouldn't be worth that cost. Plus the fact that Vegas would go after the Kings RFA's when they got the chance.

If we dealt with Vegas, & I'm not sure we should, it's going to have to be for someone making $5 million or more a year. Of the 10 guys on their roster who fit this category, only 1 doesn't currently have a no trade or movement clause & it's Shea Theodore. So if I were Blake I'd see what it takes to get him. I'd also find out which players with the modified NTC has the Kings on their lists. But I just assume it's all of them.