Elliotte Friedman: Chychrun May Be Available

[What party?]

the whole thing makes zero sense to me.

 

[AngelEyes]

Plus he would fit the Jewish quota (which has been vacant way too long) on the Kings. Fit it nicely. mhihi: cool:

 

[Clif]

What do I wish was enough? 1st this year and next, Turcotte and Durzi. But even that is pie-in-the-sky.

Agreed that I can’t see a deal without Clarke in it. And as much as I loved that dude from his first interview post-draft, it’s a deal you do. With Faber, Grans, Spence in the pipeline, the potential emergence of Durzi, and some decent years left for Drew, it’s justified to move him for an opportunity this rare.

 

[jammer06]

The only thing which makes sense to me is an Eichel situation (minus neck issues) which is not public - yet.

In general I think it's something like this, but it might be more of a snowball of proud egos. The owners of that team definitely seem like the ones to take any criticism personally even if it's valid. I'd bet a lot of money on a kiss the ring scenario that went south.

 

[jt]

So what's the MOST you'd give up for him? If it took this much, would you trade all this for him?

Clarke
Turcotte
Anderson or Bjornfot
2022 1st

And if you wouldn't, how do you solve the LD problem?

 

[Clif]

So what's the MOST you'd give up for him? If it took this much, would you trade all this for him?

Clarke
Turcotte
Anderson or Bjornfot
2022 1st

And if you wouldn't, how do you solve the LD problem?

3 of 4 yes. Not sure we’d have to give up Toby or Mikey when Clarke is going back, but I also understand Yotes need someone to play on the left now, which is why Maata as a throw-in might work. But then it takes even more, maybe another first pick or hell, even Kupari. I’d do that.

 

[jammer06]

So what's the MOST you'd give up for him? If it took this much, would you trade all this for him?

Clarke
Turcotte
Anderson or Bjornfot
2022 1st

And if you wouldn't, how do you solve the LD problem?

I'd pass on that. It makes more holes than it fills. Hockey deals need to work for both sides. I'm actually not sure that return even accomplishes what the yotes want.

 

[santiclaws]

So what's the MOST you'd give up for him? If it took this much, would you trade all this for him?

Clarke
Turcotte
Anderson or Bjornfot
2022 1st

And if you wouldn't, how do you solve the LD problem?

Gritting my teeth, yeah. None of Turcotte, Anderson or Bjornfot are likely to ever have the value of Chychrun; Clarke and the 1st might, but there's certainly no guarantee. But I think it would take less than that.

 

[jt]

3 of 4 yes. Not sure we’d have to give up Toby or Mikey when Clarke is going back, but I also understand Yotes need someone to play on the left now, which is why Maata as a throw-in might work. But then it takes even more, maybe another first pick or hell, even Kupari. I’d do that.

I'd pass on that. It makes more holes than it fills. Hockey deals need to work for both sides. I'm actually not sure that return even accomplishes what the yotes want.

Alright then. So do you just keep going with Bjornfot, Anderson, and guys like Edler and Maatta? And bet that Nousiainen is gonna be a dynamic LD?

 

[jt]

Gritting my teeth, yeah. None of Turcotte, Anderson or Bjornfot are likely to ever have the value of Chychrun; Clarke and the 1st might, but there's certainly no guarantee. But I think it would take less than that.

Thanks for playing because that's my point. Kings fans can WANT to trade less. But young #1 Dmen cost a lot to acquire. 21 yr old Seth Jones cost proven (33 and 26 goal seasons) 23 yr old Ryan Johansen. 27 (not young and overpaid one dimensional) Brent Burns cost stud prospect Charlie Coyle + young proven scorer (31, 20, & 22 goals) Setoguchi + swapping 1st & 2nd rounders). Dougie Hamilton (who was a malcontent and a problem in the locker room Chychrun is not) cost a 1st and 2 2nds. Trouba (who isn't the #1 Dman Chychrun is) cost top prospect Pionk and a 1st.

The King's won't solve their LD problem unless they're willing to give to get.

 

[hokiecat]

Thanks for playing because that's my point. Kings fans can WANT to trade less. But young #1 Dmen cost a lot to acquire. 21 yr old Seth Jones cost proven (33 and 26 goal seasons) 23 yr old Ryan Johansen. 27 (not young and overpaid one dimensional) Brent Burns cost stud prospect Charlie Coyle + young proven scorer (31, 20, & 22 goals) Setoguchi + swapping 1st & 2nd rounders). Dougie Hamilton (who was a malcontent and a problem in the locker room Chychrun is not) cost a 1st and 2 2nds. Trouba (who isn't the #1 Dman Chychrun is) cost top prospect Pionk and a 1st.

The King's won't solve their LD problem unless they're willing to give to get.

I think the price is too high (a first plus two top-10 picks) but I get it. Prospects are just that-- guys who might be stars but who have not done anything in the NHL. Chychrun is a legit NHL star (at least he was last year when Arizona still iced a competitive team). This table is pretty illustrative on how prospects are just a lottery ticket.

 

[jom]

Well, let's see. I've read through this quickly and this is an interesting thread. The most pertinent point was made by jammer:

....I'm actually not sure that return even accomplishes what the yotes want.

Exactly. What do they want? Frankly, the whole idea make NO SENSE. Why would the Yotes want to trade this guy? So it's difficult to come up with anything if you don't know the motivation AND those motivations (on the surface at least) don't make a lot of sense.

But...I'll bite. If the Kings are involved what is it they can trade to satisfy? First of all if I'm the Yotes why come to the Kings? One reason: they are loaded with centers. And where do you start? With Byfield, obviously. So do the Kings move their top prospect for this LD they need? IMO, no they don't. Why? Well, I think the center position is more important and the fact the Kings would need to add more to get the deal done. So I pass on this one. And to answer jt's question: What about the LD? Well, you push it down the line and work on it later....

What next? Turcotte seems obvious. So with him what else could you give? I'd consider Turcotte, 2022 1st plus ONE of the defensemen. More than this goes beyond jt's previous trades summary IMO. So:

Turcotte
Anderson OR Bjornfot OR Clarke (only ONE)
2022 1st

This would be about as far as I'd go. Does this satisfy Arizona (eventually Houston)? Who knows? I haven't a clue given what I alluded to earlier since this idea of Chychrun makes little sense to me....

jom

 

[Clif]

Alright then. So do you just keep going with Bjornfot, Anderson, and guys like Edler and Maatta? And bet that Nousiainen is gonna be a dynamic LD?

I don?t believe in making trades that still leave a hole, so giving up Mikey or Toby means you still have guys like Edler and Maata in that third LD spot. If one of them has to be included on top of everything else suggested, then it?s not the trade I?d be comfortable with Rob making.

 

[jt]

Well, let's see. I've read through this quickly and this is an interesting thread. The most pertinent point was made by jammer:

....I'm actually not sure that return even accomplishes what the yotes want.

Exactly. What do they want? Frankly, the whole idea make NO SENSE. Why would the Yotes want to trade this guy? So it's difficult to come up with anything if you don't know the motivation AND those motivations (on the surface at least) don't make a lot of sense.

Given what we know I agree. Of course, like we've talked about over the years, who knows what's going on behind the scenes. Most Kings fans hated the Zhitnik trade but a few people knew he was a problematic alcoholic. Kings fans hated the Sydor trade, but by his own admission, by the time they traded him he was an unsolvable headcase who needed to go to his juniors coach who could get him right. The Allison trade? Kings fans loved it, Bs fans hated it. But by the time his career was over, everyone could see he was a POS a-hole who was addition by subtraction for the Bs and subtraction by addition for the Kings. Fans don't know **** about why guys get traded, but we're fan(atic)s so we speculate...

The other thing is what someone else mentioned, maybe the Coyotes are doing what other teams have done in the past. Increase the cap hit while lowering the cash salaries in order to boost the sale value of the team.

But...I'll bite. If the Kings are involved what is it they can trade to satisfy? First of all if I'm the Yotes why come to the Kings? One reason: they are loaded with centers. And where do you start? With Byfield, obviously. So do the Kings move their top prospect for this LD they need? IMO, no they don't. Why? Well, I think the center position is more important and the fact the Kings would need to add more to get the deal done. So I pass on this one. And to answer jt's question: What about the LD? Well, you push it down the line and work on it later....

Agreed. Unless of course they know something about Byfield others don't that makes him movable.

What next? Turcotte seems obvious. So with him what else could you give? I'd consider Turcotte, 2022 1st plus ONE of the defensemen. More than this goes beyond jt's previous trades summary IMO. So:

Turcotte
Anderson OR Bjornfot OR Clarke (only ONE)
2022 1st

This would be about as far as I'd go. Does this satisfy Arizona (eventually Houston)? Who knows? I haven't a clue given what I alluded to earlier since this idea of Chychrun makes little sense to me....

Don't get me wrong, that's fair. But if Arizona won't move him for that, do you add Clarke? LD like Chychrun aren't available often. So if you pass, you need a plan (not just a vague "work on it later") on who you DO go after later. Provorov? What does he cost? Who else is there? Or do you just keep mudding along with all of one offensive Dman (Doughty)...unless Durzi quickly becomes an impact RD (which still doesn't solve the LD issue)?

The other thing to keep in mind is that the Kings don't have enough roster spots for all the good prospects. Realistically, they have about 12 very good forward prospects and in the next 2-3 years they'll start losing them on waivers. If they don't trade them they'll just lose them for nothing.

So unless you're giving up on competing for the rest of Kopi's career (and Doughty's prime years too), what do you do? I llke Bjornfot, but "dynamic" he is not. They don't have one single LD in the system who can add much to the offence.

If I'm the Kings, I JUMP at that trade even if I've gotta add another pick or 2nd tier prospect like Vilardi, Kupari, Fagemo, JAD, Madden, Spence, or Grans.

 

[jt]

I don’t believe in making trades that still leave a hole, so giving up Mikey or Toby means you still have guys like Edler and Maata in that third LD spot. If one of them has to be included on top of everything else suggested, then it’s not the trade I’d be comfortable with Rob making.

Ok, so what do you DO to fill the LD hole? Or do you just keep going with them?

BTW, if you get a Chychrun and keep Anderson or Bjornfot, Chychrun plays so many minutes you don't need an Anderson or Bjornfot as much. You can get by with a veteran #3 LD like Edler playing 10 minutes. A D of this competes for a Cup:

Anderson/Bjornfot - Doughty
Chychrun - Roy
Edler - Durzi/Walker

And if you don't like Edler in that spot, you can trade a RD like Walker with a forward prospect for a #3 LD. It's easier to fill the #3 LD spot that the #1 LD spot (Chychrun would be the #1 LD even if Anderson/Bjornfot is playing on the #1 pair).

 

[jt]

I think the price is too high (a first plus two top-10 picks) but I get it. Prospects are just that-- guys who might be stars but who have not done anything in the NHL. Chychrun is a legit NHL star (at least he was last year when Arizona still iced a competitive team). This table is pretty illustrative on how prospects are just a lottery ticket.

And that's really my point in this. If you don't "overpay" for Chychrun, what DO you do? Nothing?

 

[jom]

If I'm the Kings, I JUMP at that trade even if I've gotta add another pick or 2nd tier prospect like Vilardi, Kupari, Fagemo, JAD, Madden, Spence, or Grans.

I do agree there usually isn't much information as to why trades are made. The best anyone can do is see the surface. Obviously, GMs know more. Who knows, Chychryn might be a POS also...

As to additions: I agree there. My idea...which I should have been more clear...I'd only move ONE d-man (or or or..etc) especially if it has to be Clarke. Adding another forward is OK, IMO. Adding a Vilardi or Kupari isn't a bad idea actually.

jom

 

[jom]

And that's really my point in this. If you don't "overpay" for Chychrun, what DO you do? Nothing?

If these rumors are true they come from discussions that were already happening. It is HIGHLY likely those discussions involve the Kings (among other teams), IMO, given what we know they are looking for. So "Nothing" isn't what is going on I think. Just a thought.

jom

 

[hokiecat]

What I would do:
I'm trying to keep Clarke because we need a top scoring defenseman and nothing against Durzi but he's not Clarke. And Byfield because he has the greatest chance of our picks of becoming a scoring threat.

I'd offer Turcotte, Bjornfot, and our first. Our first will likely be higher than other team's firsts. That's 3 firsts for Chychrun including a top 5 overall. If AZ need more sweeteners than feel free to pick from Vilardi, Kupari, Fagemo, JAD, Madden, Spence, or Grans as JT mentions.

I think the Kings can offer the best package of kids of any team, though.

 

[jt]

I do agree there usually isn't much information as to why trades are made. The best anyone can do is see the surface.

Well, that and acknowledge that there's lots they don't know and that people closer to the situation really do know. That's one of the reasons I like listening to the podcasts I do. They're players, executives, and people who get real inside info from players and executives. For example, for the last 3 years EVERY former player says Dougie Hamilton is a problem as a teammate. So when people say "go get him" or "why did he sign for so little"...well, that's why. And when a guy like Ryan Whitney owns how he went from stud top 5 pick and stud top 2 D to basically a nobody, that explains a lot.

Obviously, GMs know more. Who knows, Chychryn might be a POS also...

Agreed. Every player that's traded isn't wanted by his old team for a reason. Sometimes it's money (Coffey, Gretzky), sometimes it's attitude (Thornton, Kessler, Hamilton), and sometimes it's oversupply and need at another position (any center or RD the Kings trade).

As to additions: I agree there. My idea...which I should have been more clear...I'd only move ONE d-man (or or or..etc) especially if it has to be Clarke. Adding another forward is OK, IMO. Adding a Vilardi or Kupari isn't a bad idea actually.

So something like this for Chychrun: Turcotte + Clarke + Vilardi/Kupari + 2022 1st.