The Avengers/Marvel movies

Ok, y'all have been lazy in my absence. I am even finding myself being cordial to Darby. So, in the interest of shaking things up...

I am a 52 year old heterosexual male.
I like comic book movies.
I have opinions about comic book movies.
I respect and admire women in both the good and bad connotations of those categories.


I have had a troubled past with MARVEL. Prone to being very critical.
Yet, Avengers:Infinity War and The Guardians of the Galaxy double feature rank among the best cinema experiences I have EVER enjoyed.
I currently am fighting against the silly decision to retain James Gunn's script, but firing him and labelling him as a pedo for ill advised tweets made in a previous life.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT CAPTAIN MARVEL.

Not because she is female.
Not because of my feud.
I just don't have any familiarity with the character or desire to 'find out more'

So...does that make me a troll? A hater? A misogynist?
Or is it ok for me to not be interested?
 
I have doubts about the Captain Marvel movie. First because it revolves around a woman. Second her outfits are not skimpy enough to the point that I can barely sexualize her.

mhihi: :manybeers:

Oh, but anyhooow, give this cat all the awards!



:coolcat:
 
come on, nobody?!?!?!?!

Darby? Surely you can give me some insight here. Not trying to tweak you. Just trying to start an interesting conversation. MMMcammy, Mondo Blando?
 
jerseydevil said:
Ok, y'all have been lazy in my absence. I am even finding myself being cordial to Darby. So, in the interest of shaking things up...

I am a 52 year old heterosexual male.
I like comic book movies.
I have opinions about comic book movies.
I respect and admire women in both the good and bad connotations of those categories.


I have had a troubled past with MARVEL. Prone to being very critical.
Yet, Avengers:Infinity War and The Guardians of the Galaxy double feature rank among the best cinema experiences I have EVER enjoyed.
I currently am fighting against the silly decision to retain James Gunn's script, but firing him and labelling him as a pedo for ill advised tweets made in a previous life.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT CAPTAIN MARVEL.

Not because she is female.
Not because of my feud.
I just don't have any familiarity with the character or desire to 'find out more'

So...does that make me a troll? A hater? A misogynist?
Or is it ok for me to not be interested?
Click to expand...

All the above coupled with your previous 'suspicions' on the nerdy side of the MeToo movement (specifically your Chloe Dykstra take)
pretty much means I'm forced to lump you into a category of online folk that I just don't want to engage on why they have chosen to be vocal about negative Captain Marvel opinions. (beyond this, I guess)
That's just me though. Do what you will.
 
NobleSavage said:
All the above coupled with your previous 'suspicions' on the nerdy side of the MeToo movement (specifically your Chloe Dykstra take)
pretty much means I'm forced to lump you into a category of online folk that I just don't want to engage on why they have chosen to be vocal about negative Captain Marvel opinions. (beyond this, I guess)
That's just me though. Do what you will.
Click to expand...

wow, Really? I already told you...I have no beef with it. I am not trolling it or telling you not to see it. I just gave you my resume, and basically told you I don't have any interest in it. I am not anti. Go see it, enjoy it. I have no negativity about it. I just don't care about it. Why is that NOT ok. Why am I 'intolerant' because I literally have no interest? It has nothing to do with her being a 'her'. I just don't care.
As far as the Hardwick thing...if you are going to judge me because I don't automatically believe ANYONE. I need more than just an accusation. If that bothers you, dislike me...but hope that I get picked for a jury, should you ever need one.
It's like this is some Rosa Parks kinda movie. It isn't. So politicized and made into a solidarity issue. Saw Wonder Woman. I enjoyed it. But you don't see that. You just judge me. Kinda disappointed brother.

edit: and not that I need to explain myself, but the entire Hardwick episode has left a bad taste in my mouth. I find it all highly suspect...and as a result, I have lost interest in Chris Hardwick. So, yeah...I didn't fully believe either party.
 
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To be clear, I don't dislike you JD. Quite the contrary.
I just don't care to engage you on why you don't care about Captain Marvel so much that you wish to discuss why you don't care.
 
Ok, fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. And I am sorry that we can't have further discussion. I am not adverse to admitting I am wrong, given a good argument.
 
I won't see Captain Marvel till later on after it makes it's way onto the cable channels.

These "side characters" of the Marvel Universe just don't seem to excite me to the point to spend the money and brave the crowds the way Iron Man, Thor and the Guardians and such.

I only saw Ant Man & The Wasp a few weeks back on Netflix. Doubt I would bother seeing a Hawkeye , Black Widow or other solo spinoff.

About the only movie I might wish to see would be a Fantastic 4 if only to see it done properly.
 
Ok. So nobody has an opinion. Ok. Let me rephrase to make it less antagonistic. If a person, male in particular, posts a negative review of Captain Marvel AFTER seeing it, will his opinion be dismissed as sexist/misogynistic/trolling? Does a man HAVE to like it or face shaming? There is an agenda here that was not part of the Wonder Woman conversation.
 
jerseydevil said:
Ok. So nobody has an opinion. Ok. Let me rephrase to make it less antagonistic. If a person, male in particular, posts a negative review of Captain Marvel AFTER seeing it, will his opinion be dismissed as sexist/misogynistic/trolling? Does a man HAVE to like it or face shaming? There is an agenda here that was not part of the Wonder Woman conversation.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you're spoiling for a fight on this.

One: You're not going to see it anyway.
Two: If you don't like it, you don't like it.
Three: If you don't like it because "they're just trying to make a woman as a hero" then yeah...it's probably based on sexism. If it's more like the reviews I've seen saying that it's more of a plot device than a movie, then it's not.
Four: Not sure why you're spoiling for a fight on it.

There isn't an agenda other than pointing out that people have been slamming the movie before they saw it because they're mad that Brie Larson is talking about how great it is to have a powerful woman as a hero and it's important to little girls. They're the same people who went after your boy Gunn and their motivations are the exact same motivations.
 
Untrue. It has become a Waterloo in the Gender War. And the trolling has created a rallying cry for every would be feminist. I can send you links to tons of posts that have women devaluing any criticism if it is written by a man.
And, maybe I am looking for a conversation. See...you present an oversimplified/complex proposition, and immediately you are judged as aggressive. Why is it so uncomfortable to discuss. Why does everything have to have a motivation? Nobody discusses anymore. It's all wrestling. Ok. So I am the 'heavy'. Whatever. Instead of dismissing something you disagree with...enlighten me. You know me. You know I will listen if you present a valid point. Instead I get shaded as a cretin. Why?
 
jerseydevil said:
Untrue. It has become a Waterloo in the Gender War. And the trolling has created a rallying cry for every would be feminist. I can send you links to tons of posts that have women devaluing any criticism if it is written by a man.
And, maybe I am looking for a conversation. See...you present an oversimplified/complex proposition, and immediately you are judged as aggressive. Why is it so uncomfortable to discuss. Why does everything have to have a motivation? Nobody discusses anymore. It's all wrestling. Ok. So I am the 'heavy'. Whatever. Instead of dismissing something you disagree with...enlighten me. You know me. You know I will listen if you present a valid point. Instead I get shaded as a cretin. Why?
Click to expand...

You came in guns a blazing suggesting that everyone in here says you can't have an opinion on the movie. So far no one has said anything like that. The most anyone has said is that they don't care to know why you don't care about the movie. There's plenty of movies I don't care about seeing. I don't feel like I need to share with people why I don't want to and I certainly won't suggest that they're already suspicious of my reasons when I haven't presented anything on them.

You said you don't care about the character and aren't interested. That's fine. I don't care about The Punisher either. I don't even know why I don't. I just don't. But like, I don't feel the need to tell everyone that I've shot weapons before, like anti-heroes, thought Shane was a great character in the Walking Dead, or anything else. I just don't voice an opinion about it.

People like the Punisher though. People are excited about The Punisher. Awesome. I'm happy that they find joy in it. I feel the same way about Lost and, quite frankly, when people come in and **** on it...I don't understand why. That's sort of what I feel you're doing here. No one said you had to like Captain Marvel. No one even said you had to go see it. Some people (myself included) are looking forward to this movie though. That's also ok. You're creating an argument where one doesn't exist. I don't get it. What's your end game on this?

You don't like the reaction by feminists to the trolling? Well, go after the people who are doing the trolling. Don't get upset at people pushing back and fighting them. Don't go all-in on the people who are reacting to the trolls by suggesting they're saying you have to like this movie or you're a sexist. Go beat up on the POS's who are creating the mess. You're doing work regarding these same people doing this garbage to James Gunn, why not this movie? It's the same tripe by the same people for the same reasons. Go fight them instead.
 
jerseydevil said:
Ok, y'all have been lazy in my absence. I am even finding myself being cordial to Darby. So, in the interest of shaking things up...

I am a 52 year old heterosexual male.
I like comic book movies.
I have opinions about comic book movies.
I respect and admire women in both the good and bad connotations of those categories.


I have had a troubled past with MARVEL. Prone to being very critical.
Yet, Avengers:Infinity War and The Guardians of the Galaxy double feature rank among the best cinema experiences I have EVER enjoyed.
I currently am fighting against the silly decision to retain James Gunn's script, but firing him and labelling him as a pedo for ill advised tweets made in a previous life.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT CAPTAIN MARVEL.

Not because she is female.
Not because of my feud.
I just don't have any familiarity with the character or desire to 'find out more'

So...does that make me a troll? A hater? A misogynist?
Or is it ok for me to not be interested?
Click to expand...

I don't think you're racist or misogynist or anything like that. You're not a troll because your arguments are sincere and you're not intentionally pushing buttons. I just think you're self-centered in a very literal way. And because you focus on yourself, you don't tend to see the larger picture or the directions that your arguments may be pointing towards.

To my mind, your issues with previous Marvel fare haven't been about the films themselves so much as they've been about them changing things to which you had formed a cherished adolescent emotional attachment. In other words, there's a place in your heart for the characters who made you feel understood as a young man and you've been pissed that someone was updating them. Changes to the characters you loved, or character in a story you loved, got you mad. You've failed to see how new representation in these movies means something to the new fringes (of which you are no longer a part). So you've viewed these changes in a "Why are they f***ing with my childhood?" kinda way.

"Guardians 2" was a dad movie. It didn't especially jam with me because I don't have deep dad feelings. Many others do, and so it was liked much more by others than by me. I assume you fell into the wider crowd on that one, bolstering your enjoyment of the film.

"Infinity War" was straight up comics culmination. Lots of characters, they did a good job with Thanos, and it was a spectacle, so there wasn't much there for teen-JD to take adolescent issue with.

When it comes to Captain Marvel, I understand she didn't gain real relevance until the 90's, by which time you were in your 20's and, if you read the title at all, I doubt you made the same precious emotional bond. So what the f** do you care? And your current ambivalent stance on it, going in, makes sense. She never mattered to you when it mattered to you. Why would she now?




jerseydevil said:
wow, Really? I already told you...I have no beef with it. I am not trolling it or telling you not to see it. I just gave you my resume, and basically told you I don't have any interest in it. I am not anti. Go see it, enjoy it. I have no negativity about it. I just don't care about it. Why is that NOT ok. Why am I 'intolerant' because I literally have no interest? It has nothing to do with her being a 'her'. I just don't care.
As far as the Hardwick thing...if you are going to judge me because I don't automatically believe ANYONE. I need more than just an accusation. If that bothers you, dislike me...but hope that I get picked for a jury, should you ever need one.
It's like this is some Rosa Parks kinda movie. It isn't. So politicized and made into a solidarity issue. Saw Wonder Woman. I enjoyed it. But you don't see that. You just judge me. Kinda disappointed brother.

edit: and not that I need to explain myself, but the entire Hardwick episode has left a bad taste in my mouth. I find it all highly suspect...and as a result, I have lost interest in Chris Hardwick. So, yeah...I didn't fully believe either party.
Click to expand...

If you don't like it for movie reasons, then you just don't like it. That'd be the end of it.

But come in and complain that it was needlessly a "woman power" movie shoving its femininity in your face for no reason and it's a blight on equality, well, then you're gonna get hit. I wouldn't be surprised if this were your reaction, though. Or close to it. You already seem way on the defensive about it, anticipating heavy flack and trying to prepare your "I told you how much you were gonna s** you were gonna give li'l ol' me if I hated it" defense.

But again, representation matters. This is Marvel's first female-lead movie. She is potentially the single most powerful character, being introduced at a particular time in the world of Hollywood and real life. All of that means something. Just maybe not to you and your particular life. It doesn't particularly impact me directly, either, but I can recognize the moment.



jerseydevil said:
Untrue. It has become a Waterloo in the Gender War. And the trolling has created a rallying cry for every would be feminist. I can send you links to tons of posts that have women devaluing any criticism if it is written by a man.
And, maybe I am looking for a conversation. See...you present an oversimplified/complex proposition, and immediately you are judged as aggressive. Why is it so uncomfortable to discuss. Why does everything have to have a motivation? Nobody discusses anymore. It's all wrestling. Ok. So I am the 'heavy'. Whatever. Instead of dismissing something you disagree with...enlighten me. You know me. You know I will listen if you present a valid point. Instead I get shaded as a cretin. Why?
Click to expand...
Funny that you argue against oversimplification as you oversimplify the issue.

There are tons of trolls out there trolling just because it's what they do. There are tons of trolls out there trolling because it's Marvel and they're DC. But there are also a bunch of people out there trolling because nerd s*** has always been a boys club and now there are franchises they've been nerding on that *gasp* now have female leads. How dare these studios bring girls and all that stuff into the clubhouse???

Look at "Last Jedi" and "Ghostbusters." In both cases, weren't lead characters basically trolled off Twitter or whatever? Wasn't there lots of nerd rage out there because they were "forcing" women into the franchises?

To dismiss that this is a Thing is to dismiss the issue. And you may not care about the issue yourself ("I have friends who are women!"), denying that it is an issue is something that will get you some s***.


Meanwhile, you're devaluing the opinions of the women who're devaluing the opinions of men. There are trolls and men getting in a huff because of the fervor over the movie. Could it possibly be that some of those men's opinions should be dismissed? Again, it's a matter of where the criticism and the opinion is coming from. And it should go both ways.




Anyway, I'm seeing it tomorrow night (Thurs) with a friend at an AMC screening where we're getting a collectible coin and a small "cameo" popcorn. I tend to like Marvel movies, have virtually zero knowledge of Captain Marvel as a character, but I'm interested in seeing how it goes. I'm sure I'll post an opinion on Friday or some time in the next week.
 
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Well...a lots wrong points amidst a few good ones, and ones that I have to digest. So. Thanks. I got you guys talking.

Some nice things said there Darby. Some not as much, but its progress.


You don't like the reaction by feminists to the trolling? Well, go after the people who are doing the trolling.

THIS THOUGH. Are you out of your mind today. So...the ultra feminists who lump all men under the role of troll., they have NO responsibility to maintain objectivity?
Because they are the injured party...they get to overreact without me...a man, being able to mention it...btw, that's what I did. I may have stated it crudely...but it was a question based on things I witnessed. I'll give you my reading list with my indexes.

You have a need to make me the bad guy at your expense. It's pretty consistent. And you are entirely inflexible. I talk to much to be wrong ALL the time.

Anyway. In 6 weeks this won't have even mattered. And it shouldn't matter now. THAT'S what irritates me about EVERYTHING involved in this.
 
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